Summer feed

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pabstman
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:44 pm

Summer feed

Post by pabstman » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:10 pm

What's the best summer time feed you guys have had the best results with? I don't run as much in the summer but still get them out a few times a week. Would like to hear what you guys feed and see good results in the summer months.

BCBeagles
Posts: 5499
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 am
Location: West Virginia

Re: Summer feed

Post by BCBeagles » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:20 am

Never switch feeds...just feed less....for me it works and the dogs also.....Good luck!
Jim Hall
BUFFALO CREEK KENNELS

BREEDING HOUNDS FOR FIELD PERFORMANCE
GUN HUNTERS AND TRIALERS WELCOME ANYTIME! I WILL RUN ANY AND ALL HOUNDS IN MY KENNEL UPON REQUEST.

Hare Chaser
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Summer feed

Post by Hare Chaser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:15 am

BCBeagles wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:20 am
Never switch feeds...just feed less....for me it works and the dogs also.....Good luck!
Ditto for me! I feed about 1/4 to 1/3 less in summer than I do in winter. Also found I was able to feed less in the winter months when I installed hound heaters in the dog boxes. Big difference!

Shady Grove Beagles
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: east,Tn..

Re: Summer feed

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:55 pm

Like the other guys....... I don't switch,just feed less.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

Swampman
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:10 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Summer feed

Post by Swampman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:09 pm

X4

pabstman
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:44 pm

Re: Summer feed

Post by pabstman » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:18 pm

Thanks guys

HatterasBob
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Summer feed

Post by HatterasBob » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:13 pm

I beg to differ with the distinguish gentlemen above. I feed low protein food in the summer and high in the winter. Now, I'm going to stir the pot. An old time vet told me that high protein food year round will destroy the kidneys. It is often seen in working dogs, even had a beagle with bad kidneys? I buried one just a few weeks ago. She had bad kidneys when I got her. She was grossly underweight, I nursed her back to health and put weight on her and ran her for 2 years before she succumb to her bad kidneys. Yes, it could be Lepto and not high protein dog food. Yes, there was a study in Canada that indicated there was no association between high protein dog food year round and bad kidneys, but my vet said there was and he is a beagler.

Mhouse
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: New Concord, OH

Re: Summer feed

Post by Mhouse » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:49 pm

I have heard about the high protein and kidney problems! I can’t imagine a dog food having more protein than meat that a dog species might eat in the wild. Thoughts? I have fed high protein dog food year round for twenty-five years and never had one with kidney problems
MEADOWWOOD'S BEAGLES

Shady Grove Beagles
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Location: east,Tn..

Re: Summer feed

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:17 pm

I fed Purina Dog Chow [ 21% protein ] for years and lost several over the years to kidney failure.
I earned my living for 33 years in the x-ray business and had many vets./ veterinary clinics as my customers. Spoke with many of these vets. in regards to renal failure and feed and none of them felt that was a contributing factor.
When I lived in New Hampshire there were several sled dog racers that lived in my town.Can't remember the brand name but they fed a chow that was like 38% protein and swore by it.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

Newt
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:42 am

Re: Summer feed

Post by Newt » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:24 am

HatterasBob wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:13 pm
I beg to differ with the distinguish gentlemen above. I feed low protein food in the summer and high in the winter. Now, I'm going to stir the pot. An old time vet told me that high protein food year round will destroy the kidneys. It is often seen in working dogs, even had a beagle with bad kidneys? I buried one just a few weeks ago. She had bad kidneys when I got her. She was grossly underweight, I nursed her back to health and put weight on her and ran her for 2 years before she succumb to her bad kidneys. Yes, it could be Lepto and not high protein dog food. Yes, there was a study in Canada that indicated there was no association between high protein dog food year round and bad kidneys, but my vet said there was and he is a beagler.
Old time Vets are people. There are BS artists in every profession.
Just curious, did you breed any of those dogs that had kidney problems?
You can blame it on the food but most health problems, related to longevity, are genetic problems.
Its too bad that Field Champions aren't required to have health tests prior to being offered at public stud.

TRK
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Summer feed

Post by TRK » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:44 am

I think if a dog has kidney problems the high protien diet is hard on them. I had a dog like that and the vet I was going to at the time recommended a lower protien high carbohydrate diet. It seemed to help her. If a dog does not have kidney problems I don't think the protien will cause them any problems.

warddog
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Location: Jasonville, Indiana

Re: Summer feed

Post by warddog » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:27 am

HatterasBob wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:13 pm
I beg to differ with the distinguish gentlemen above. I feed low protein food in the summer and high in the winter. Now, I'm going to stir the pot. An old time vet told me that high protein food year round will destroy the kidneys. It is often seen in working dogs, even had a beagle with bad kidneys? I buried one just a few weeks ago. She had bad kidneys when I got her. She was grossly underweight, I nursed her back to health and put weight on her and ran her for 2 years before she succumb to her bad kidneys. Yes, it could be Lepto and not high protein dog food. Yes, there was a study in Canada that indicated there was no association between high protein dog food year round and bad kidneys, but my vet said there was and he is a beagler.
I am also one of those that believe this to have some truth to it. I spent an entire 30+ year career in the meat inspection business of the USDA where ALL supervisors are veterinarians and have inspected thousands of food animals at the time of slaughter. If an animal is sold interstate it must have a USDA inspection both externally and internally. So this is actually a post mortem autopsy to determine if the carcass is fit for human consumption. That determination separates the human food from that used in pet foods. So ALL the stuff that is not fit for human consumption s fit for pet food manufacturing unless it contains a non-approved drug of any kind then it must be buried in a landfill. I have also been involved in several study slaughters where Pfizer drug company and Perdue University tested feed suppliments containing growth stimulants, protein ratios as well as the efficiency of magnets fed to cattle. What was noticed in the high protein diets was that the kidneys AND the livers were showing signs of abnormalities not seen in the control groups. This was noticed in both cattle and hog studies that I was involved in in two seperate slaughter facilities during my career.
The Standards for dog food is established by the Association of Aminal Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) which is a committee of experts in Dog Food Nutrition. This committee was concerned back in 1995 that OVERNUTRITION rather than undernutrition was a bigger problem in many pet foods evern back then. They did research and published dog food nutritional profiles that described the minimum nutritional needs for protein, fat, vitaimin and minerals for dogs in the growth and reproduction age as well as adult dog mainenance. Growth and repreduction minimum requirments are 22% protein and 8% fat while adults require only 18% protein and 5% fat. They do NOT specify a maximum for protein and fat. I suspect that every dog food beaqglers are feeding is much higher than 22% protein and 8% fat which would then fit into the concern that dogs are being fed feeds that are over the nutritional requirments rather than under.
I see a LOT of house dogs that are overweight because the wife thinks they need all this much better high priced dog foods and treats when they are on their face value way over the minumum percentages needed for the animal. Of course that is for pets that are limited to exercise but if one isn't running dogs 7 days per week they are not burning those excessive nutrients either.
Of course this is merely my opinion derived from what I have actually personally seen during internal organ examination of food animals. I am NOT a veterinarian but have heard several make the claim that high protein feeds will burn up the liver and kidneys of food animals. To date I have not seen any data on an actual test trial on the impact of higher than minimum recommended protein and fat percentages hunting dogs and I suspect that this may never happen because that would take killing those in the test and doing an actual examination of the impact on the liver and kidneys. What I have seen over the past numerous years are dogs that are diagnosied with renal problems when 30, 40 or 50 years ago we never heard of it. I also suspect that it is like everything else that the impact varies from animal to animal just as smomking may cause cancer but NOT every smoker gets cancer let alone die from it.

Hare Chaser
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Summer feed

Post by Hare Chaser » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:18 am

Not sure if I was among the class labeled as distinguished gentleman or not..................but here's my response:

I've not been without at least (1) running hound, either beagle or coon hound, for 1 second of 1 day for the last 41 years. I've always fed my dogs in the same manner with the exception being that 34 years ago I switched from feeding once a day to twice a day. Fed a number of different dog foods but for the last 25-30 years its been either Purina One or Pro-Plan. Been using strictly Pro-Plan for the last 5 years.

In those 41 years I've lost one hound to renal failure and it wasn't dog food that caused the issue. I've had in excess of (100) hounds in that time frame and the ones I kept for their life time would all average 10 years or better in age with the oldest making it to 13. My hounds get above average ground time I would say compared to most of those who don't trial.

Access to water when ever they need/want it is crucial to kidney health as well as other body functions. In the winter months I feed wet as well as providing water twice/day. I carry water in the truck for them to have when they're done running. Not much science to it I guess but historically speaking this has worked well for me.

steve w
Posts: 504
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Location: sw mi

Re: Summer feed

Post by steve w » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:58 pm

I don't switch either, although I can see why some might. I have had several dogs die of kidney failure, can't say that it was from food. They were all 12 or older and I have never fed more than 26% protein. I do like for them to have all the fat they can get and would think the quality of the protein would have more effect on the kidneys then quantity.

HatterasBob
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Summer feed

Post by HatterasBob » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:49 pm

Newt wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:24 am
HatterasBob wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:13 pm
I beg to differ with the distinguish gentlemen above. I feed low protein food in the summer and high in the winter. Now, I'm going to stir the pot. An old time vet told me that high protein food year round will destroy the kidneys. It is often seen in working dogs, even had a beagle with bad kidneys? I buried one just a few weeks ago. She had bad kidneys when I got her. She was grossly underweight, I nursed her back to health and put weight on her and ran her for 2 years before she succumb to her bad kidneys. Yes, it could be Lepto and not high protein dog food. Yes, there was a study in Canada that indicated there was no association between high protein dog food year round and bad kidneys, but my vet said there was and he is a beagler.
Old time Vets are people. There are BS artists in every profession.
Just curious, did you breed any of those dogs that had kidney problems?
You can blame it on the food but most health problems, related to longevity, are genetic problems.
Its too bad that Field Champions aren't required to have health tests prior to being offered at public stud.
Yes, I bred her, sold her at 8 weeks old, bought her back at 6 years old and buried her at 8 years old. I did not blame it on the food, I stated I removed high protein as a potential cause to renal failure, something we as beaglers see way too often. I personally believe that Lepto is a major cause of renal failure in beagles. I also believe that running hare trials in the summer in 90 degree heat causes renal failure, ever see a judge pickup a dog for stopping to get a drink of water? I have!

Now let me say this, I am a degreed Zoologist (University of Maryland). So, I do understand that genetics can play role in longevity, but I think that most problems related to beagle longevity is environmental (i.e. Lepto, lack of water, running in the heat, etc.). Do you know that Lepto causes renal failure? 10 years ago no one gave the Lepto vaccine to dogs because it all but disappeared, "It's Back!". Every been to Hawaii? Have you seen the beautiful streams and waterfalls? Have you read the sign, "Do not swim in these waters!"? Because the wild boars upriver have Lepto and they pee in the straem and people contract Lepto. Do you know there are 9 different serovars of leptospirosis (last check) and current vaccines only work on 4 and a few years ago it was 2. I had a young dog contract one not of the 4 and the tests were sent to Pfizer. They said they would include it in their vaccines, I'm still waiting. Do you know the signs of renal failure, it is no interest in eating, switch foods to high protein, eat for a weeks then not eating, switch to canned food, eat for a week and no eating, switch to hamburger, eat for a week and then die. Also ammonia breath. Field Champion health tests are very big in bird dogs, so are the prices for pups, not so much in beagles and it still doesn't catch many genetic problems, except for eyes and hip dysplasia. I had one female die at 5 years old that I bought from Canada. I only got one litter out of her and I only kept one pup. That pup is now 13 and still goes with me every-time. She is slowing down, but so I'm I. So the mother death was not genetic, but environmental.

I personally don't think hare beagles live as long as cottontail beagles. It's not genetic it is environmental. I'll leave it at that.

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