The American Beagler Forum

Bowguy I'm not advocating what you think. My dogs are closer to yours in line control and check work.
There is only one statement that you made that I will take issue. You stated that a rabbit track is only three inches wide. Physically that is true. However air scent can only be determined by a good hound. You nor I can tell how wide the scent in the air. I wouldn't own a gundog that can't or won't run air scent as well as walk out the ground scent once the air scent disappears. But that is just me.

You are correct on the air scent. I’ve heard hare dogs do it and bear dogs def do it.
The thing is if I can explain it correctly, the air say is blowing right of the track. Here comes 7 dogs right and left of the track crossing back and forth. Kinda zig zagging opposite ways. Maybe like a race car start with drivers going left than right, the one behind em going right to left. They continue this craziness through a few turns of a piece and outa sight. The wind isn’t commionly doing that unless that fellow is judging I guess???? Imo and I’d bet money it’s the dogs and the judge is tolerating this cause he knows no better or likes this. But the rule book allows no likes.

And you’re right about we can’t know how wide the scent cone might be but when this style of running causes problems it’s not because they’re in the air scent. If they ran off to one side consistently you actually had to conclude they were on air scent. When I say consistently I’m referring to being off but seeming locked on

This board aint Gone with the wind ! Just the scent !

likeemfast wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:55 am

Lucky for me I grew up in Minersville PA in Schuylkill County, and as u can imagine, yeppir it’s Coal Country. Still run the stripping banks and old coal fields. If they can run em there they can run em anywhere.

You are even luckier to still be able to have them as well as hunt them. I would have thought many were reclaimed as they have been here. They sure used to hold a LOT of rabbits in those old stripper nobs. The reclaimed coal fields today seem to hold some but doesn't provide the cover those ole nobs did. I agree they were a test on a dogs ability to run a rabbit as well as a test on those following them into that stuff. A lot of them had lakes or ponds in them as well and I watched cottontails swim them with dogs right behind. Back then we didn't know what a registered beagle was, the AKC standards or rules BUT what we did know was a dog that allowed us to consistently put meat on the table in those ole rough stripper nobs was one that met our standards for feeding it and we never ran behind them to see what each one was doing. What was funny is that the entire hunting party seemed to know which dog(s) were the best and they seemed to be that way weekend after weekend, hunt after hunt. In fact those that are still alive and hunting from my ole family group of uncles and cousins back in those days continue to use one or two of those old farm dogs as a yardstick to what they have now.

I am glad something is on here to read

Bowguy
Yes, you have challenged us to post videos and yes no one bit, but quite frankly I could get a 30 second clip of a cull and make it look good. I personally don’t video, my hounds don’t watch movies and I have no one to please but me. Any and all are welcome to come and see what I run. You may like them, you might not. One thing is for sure, on Facebook, videos posted all the time and I wouldn’t give $1 for 75pct of them hounds. In a 30 second clip there’s 2 breakdowns among other issues. Thems garbage.

Warddog
Yes, happy to still have those coal fields. Been running the same grounds for 45 years now. You can sure gauge their nose power on how they run on that black dirt. Some do lack the nose power but if they have that desire, sticktuitiveness it more than makes up for it.

Patch
Some strive on controversy or something was your statement. My response was for every finger you point 3 are pointing back atcha. I’m sure you understand that when you make a fist and point, 3 of your own fingers are pointing back at you. So it must be you didn’t get the fact that I think you are one of those guys that thrive on controversy, and before you say it, yeah sure I like to stir a pot or two. That’s how I got banned from Rabbitdogs.net. You remember, I posted feeding a overweight dog every other day and every doggie liberal got their panties wadded up. I went down swinging,

Likemfast it wasn’t so much a challenge, point is talk is cheap. Don’t take that wrong but sometimes guys get caught up in what’s not true or maybe just exaggerated.
There really is no fast dog that runs check free.
They make their own check. Now as I said it’s absolutely fine if that’s what a person likes.
I must say though that if you could make a fast dog look good running in a shale pit, in a dry spell or running down a dry hot road even in 30 seconds you may have a dog. Let’s be honest, it’s just not gonna happen unless it had the gears to do what I call the blue collar hard work. Any idiot can reach out as far as they need to regain a line.
Many may like that and this is fine. Not fine if we’re either running an AKC trial under AKC rules or if someone like myself were to like line control. If you think leaving em back by the creek as stated earlier is more unpreferable than blowing a 75 yard hole in a line than we’re on very dif wavelengths thinking wise.
I do respect the fact you feed what you like though.

Bowguy wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:47 am

Likemfast it wasn’t so much a challenge, point is talk is cheap. Don’t take that wrong but sometimes guys get caught up in what’s not true or maybe just exaggerated.
There really is no fast dog that runs check free.

There is no slow dog that runs check free neither.
Just because they don't shut up, doesn't mean there aren't checks. When forward progress stops, that is a check.
I've seen plenty of videos with slow dogs where the poster states "check free" yet they are hung up several times babbling away in the check.

I run fairly quick hounds and yes, they over run at times, however they snap back to the check and get it and go.
I can't stand a swinging, cutting, cheating hound.
I'm not a gambling man but I would put money down that if put a stop watch to it, they will circle a rabbit back to the gun faster than a slow "check free" hound.

I have videos on youtube under Stinepatch.

I’ll agree swampman that slower hounds have checks too. Guys and please don’t misunderstand I’m not trying to argue or change anyone.
The fact is and maybe it’s not absolute cause it’s only one guy, but a fellow in my club actually times his runs. Running time, check length, circle time. Apparently he’s done this for years.
He’s said overall the slower hounds he runs now are circling faster than the fast dogs.
It’s only one man though but he runs a lot and for hours. He’s not casual about it.
More food for thought

Swampman, I’m working a long day right now so I didn’t have a chance to watch much and I certainly didn’t watch em all.
Are they mostly hare chases? Cause the point is that’s their specialty?
I’ll try n watch this weekend.
Nothing the little bit I watched showed a tough day/area. Can they gear way down?
Not calling you out btw, they seemed like lots of fun, not my style but I’d def go chase a hare w ya and prob have a blast

I learned a long time ago there's only one person my hounds need to please. As long as they do that life's good for them!!

Hare Chaser wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:18 pm

I learned a long time ago there's only one person my hounds need to please. As long as they do that life's good for them!!

Been gone on vacation for the past couple of weeks and hadn't got near a computer in that time and come back and look what I find!
Quote: " Many really fast dogs can't possibly run a cottontail". Really? I'd venture to say that's because you have not had the pleasure of seeing it done. I don't know if you would consider my hounds "very fast". They come from Large Pack on Hare and Mid-West breeding so I'll let you and others make up your own minds--if you haven't done that already..... But let me assure you they CAN and DO run cottontails on a regular basis and from what I and others see they do a pretty nice and CONSISTENT job on them.
Quote: " run to catch super dogs.The term is great but unless English is your second language it's kind of misleading". Wow! I wouldn't slam a door that hard. I don't claim that run to catch as a description of a hound's running style makes them any more a super dog than the much slower more conservative ones. Don't want to give that impression. But my guess would be that most of the beaglers that peruse these posts know the difference in a hound that is content to follow a scent track and one that desires to push that track with the intent of overtaking his game and catching/killing it. I grew up in Massachusetts and lived in northern New England for many years and my southern friends might consider my accent to be "second language" but I can assure you I'm usually well understood when I converse.
Quote: "What could possibly catch a rabbit? A bunch of dogs running all over and lucking in to one,maybe a sight chase. How would you pressure him if you're going the wrong way?" Wow! And double wow! You really haven't run with a good,fast accurate hound have you?
I make no brag claims on my four females.They are 6,5,3 and 16 months of age. This past gun season they ran down 16 full grown cottontails and they did not do it by"lucking in to one,a sight chase,on the jump or by going the wrong way" The shortest race where they ran the rabbit to a catch was 20 minutes, some were in the 1 hour 15 minute range and most were at around 45-50 minutes of unrelenting pressure, minimal checks, hard driving, fast paced running.If you think this is a so called "fairy tale" as you've put it then there is probably little I could say that would convince you otherwise.
Quote: " guys can show how perfectly their fast dogs run and show us how the fast dogs don't over run". My fast dogs don't run perfectly and they do over run.Do I need to elaborate or is that what you were looking for?
Quote:" wearing some kind of run to catch insignia". Seeing that that the statement "home of a true hound that runs to catch" appears along side of what ever I post on this board and you say that you don't want to start a "pissing contest" Sir,what am I to think?
Rowdy / Swampman Quote: " there is no slow hound that runs check free either" Amen. And thank you for that Rowdy.
Here in Tennessee I have the opportunity to see a lot of what would be considered the true southern cottontail beagle and when trialed most of these hounds are trialed in the U.B.G.F. Association clubs. My absolutely biggest complaint about 80% of these hounds is that they DO NOT shut-up in the check area when they are not making progress!
In the 23 years I've lived in the south I've run with many of the Black Creeks,Skull Forks,Gays,Flat Creeks,Stubby,Weircreeks,etc. Some good dogs if that's your preferred style and guys kill a truck load of rabbits with them.Have I seen them outshine my dogs on a 90 degree,dry dusty day? Sometimes. Have they been able to take a track down the middle of an asphalt road in the middle of summer that other dogs couldn't smell [ why is this the example all the slow dog guys always use? LOL ] Sometimes. [ When my dogs are in the middle of an asphalt road I usually pick em up but that's just me. ]
Have I seen where some nice,fast,accurate hounds were able to drive the rabbit at such a pace that the aforementioned lines of beagles fell so far behind that they were in trouble of being lapped as the rabbit was now actually running behind them? Sure. Have I watched a hard hitting hound grab a check and explode out of there with it while one of the aforementioned bloodlines of close,clean,heads down hounds stands on his head and blows holes in the ground? Seen that a bunch.
Point is,run what you like but boy do I get tired of some of you stating that every fast,hard hitting hound is as faulty as Bowguy describes them.

Shady, running a rabbit is so dif to most people. No need to be incredulous. Not one imo and yea you heard me, fast dog can run a rabbit. I’ve seen plenty of fast ones. I’ve judged at hare clubs, this hit n miss garbage to me isnt right. If you wanna tolerate dogs running Willie nillie, so be it. I still am waiting on a real fast dog running across shale pit, dry, dusty road video etc. Just shut guys up if they can do it and show them
Instead of complaining about a question.
I’m trying to offend no one and believe me, you have seen nothing I haven’t. This really only is a difference of opinions. That being said I’ve seen dogs you might like. Yes they actually can move a rabbit but as much time off it as on.
Things get tough and they sometimes do, are they bearing down or looking for a new rabbit???
Show me one not outrunning it’s nose?? Just ain’t happening. Toleration among dif guys is different.
Same token now you might not tolerate my dogs patience so to each his own but you’re not selling me your goods under the premise some real fast dog can be perfect.
Listen, this may be news to you. Not one guy who likes line control and brains would not speed things way up if they were done accurately. Least none I know of. If you got some, post video of em like I asked and convert some fellows.
How come the lack of videos?????????????? Checks in the mail, huh??