The American Beagler Forum

Is it just me,or do dogs run different in training pen vs the wild? sometimes it looks like a dog can really get after it in a pen and get in the wild and don't look good at all. saw one even give a little extra mouth in the wild. what do you guys think?

Dogs most definitely run different in an enclosure !
A lot of it is how big the enclosure is.I've run in enclosures that are 100-200 acres and would have to say that they approximate running in the wild to a larger degree than the smaller enclosures of say 20-30 acres.
But no matter the size,if the rabbits/hare are run a lot they learn to run much differently than a wild rabbit or hare run.I think they tend to not run out as far from the dogs as a wild rabbit is apt to.In pens that run large packs this is a result that if they do they are apt to run in to other hounds that aren't necessarily behind them and get caught. They also will tend to run the fence a lot.
The other thing that I think is a contributing factor is that running pens [depending on what the rabbit population in the pen is] tend to have rabbit scent in abundance and dogs can pick up fresh tracks pretty easily and can switch tracks easily.Often they don't have to work much to find a track and some dogs tend to run here and there head high until they bump a rabbit.Sight chases can frequently occur if the cover isn't great and this can lead to some pretty helter skelter dog work.
When I lived in New Hampshire and belonged to the Claremont Beagle Club I was running one evening and visiting with Phil Reynolds and we'd seen the hare and hounds pass by several times and Phil made the comment that "these hare run like circus rabbits". They tended to run much more like a cottontail than a wild hare on the outside.
I realize that when a guy sends his young dog to a starting pen that they consciously or sub-consciously want there to be a lot of rabbits in the pen so that their prospect can get "jump started" quickly. All I can say about that is beware ! Too many rabbits can lead to some faults in a hound's work that will show up when you take him to the woods during gun season.
As always JMHO.

THANKS SHADY GROAVES. GOOD INFORMATION. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SHARE.

I have two "Starting Pens" that is what I call them, they used for the Starting of Pups. I don't like to have many rabbits in the smaller pen, as soon as the pup get to tracking an giving mouth. He Comes Out of that pen. (I CALL THIS ONE KINDERGARTEN) Move the pup, across the road to the larger pen for a short time.

I Do Not recommend that they continue to be ran inside the pens. That is where most folks make mistakes, they want me to keep them and run them inside for a couple week ?

If you know what you doing, fellow can get the pup going in a few days. (that is if they come from some good breed blood lines )

No telling How many I have started in my day. My field trial records Speaks For It's self, been many yeas ago that I was competing my hounds in the ARHA, it was Not the N.K.C. back then, it was when Everett Morgan, from Ky. owned the ARHA.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>

Puppies can become "pen-wise" I like to call it. That's when they need to leave the pen, if not just before. I notice this especially, in checks. The pups leave the check to find another rabbit, instead of working out the check. I believe this to be mental conditioning. They have been in every piece of cover and know which ones hold rabbits, so that's where they go to jump another instead of working out the check. More rabbits are needed for pups, less for running dogs. Make the running dogs work the check or lots of silence follow. When I see the behavior in the puppy pen, it is there last time in it. I also notice it takes about 3 times in the wild before the pup starts running, packing, hunting and jumping, if not more. It's all new to them, that's why we call it training.

I have heard and agree on both sides of the "Good/Bad" about pens. They are nice to start and condition dogs it is a lot easier to control the predator population in pens, a lot less chance of off game and the absolute worse AUTOMOBILES.
Several guys I know turn their dogs loose on the way to work and pick them up on the way home.
If U have toooo many rabbits they get smart they do a lot more doubles trying to shake the hounds-I would luv 2 have a enclosure 10 -20 acres ( NO I would not turn a pac of 5-10 dogs loose in a pen that small) with NO trees over head high a mixture of switchgrass,broomsage,clover and green briers with dead pines AKA X-Mas trees, wooden pallets 4" pvc pipe plenty of water. Most do not realize the work that goes into maintaining a pen/enclosure .
In my sorry ASS state of Md the Hawks ,Owls,PROTECTED Rattle Snakes,Bobcats,Fox and coyotes have just about killed off our rabbit population each and every year my dogs are better now than they have been in all my 71 years and the Rabbit population is worse.

One last thought on COYOTES one of my neighboring states have a bounty on Yotes BUT they must B tagged a Buddy of mine killed 4 as they were circling his Beagles while they were running one had a ear tag from Wisconsin being the curious type we were wondering how in the HELL did that Coyote get from Wisconsin to Va he called the phone # on the tag and gave the operator the # and was told it had been SOLD to State Farm Insurance put in here I am sure to control the Deer

Jim