How many?

[ericwaddle3]

Just curious as to how many dogs everyone is feeding/running. Try and spark a little conversation

[Beagle Huntsman]

I believe to have a serious breeding program you must have numbers for selection. Because of this and my love of hound pack running, I keep enough that I can hunt 12-18 each time out. I constantly experiment with different combinations to get the best running, but I find a lot of that depends on the rabbits. When rabbits are easy to find and willing to stay up and run, the combination of hounds making up the pack becomes less critical.

[Newt]

I've got six bitches at present. However, I have sold enough to local rabbit hunters that have access to at least twenty bitches if I needed them to raise a litter. One guy has 6-7 males, he only keeps males, and I only keep females. When I raise a litter, if I start a good male pup, he gets it. If it is better than one in his kennel, he sells his and buys mine.
He doesn't enjoy raising pups and I find it very rewarding. Its worked out for both of us.

A couple years ago a rabbit hunter that has several of my line, bred a bitch that required a C-section. When he brought her home she apparently gave no milk. He called me for advice. I told him, I have a bitch with pups, bring yours and put them on my bitch for a few weeks. His wife had gotten involved and was absolutely against those pups leaving their home. He talked to her, and she grudgingly gave her permission.
When he arrived, I noticed that two of the three pups were colored different from my litter, but one was tri-colored like mine. I told him to take a close up picture of his pup, so his wife would be confident she was getting her pups, when I sent them home.
No sooner than he had taken the picture, when his phone rang. It was his wife wanting to know how we were going to be sure she would get "her pups" back. He assured her we had a picture of her pup and there would be no mistake.
The next morning, I checked on the pups and that pup was dead. I immediately called him and told him about the situation.
I told him, destroy that picture, and I would give him one of my pups that was colored similar to his pup that had died. His wife still doesn't know.
It pays to have friends that understands and that you can depend on. I'm blessed.

[gfedor]

2 is perfect for me these days. With Family, work, life in general, 2 suits me.

When I was younger, single , had up to 13

[ericwaddle3]

Currently have 4 myself. Three running dogs and pup I’ll start this spring. Don’t really like running more than 3 at a time so try and stay around that number. I’ve had up to 7 and just don’t have the time for that many. It’s dark by time I get home during the week so only been able to run in the weekends. Harvested plenty this year so, just been taking them out and running last couple weeks. May actually try and make it to a trial next weekend.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I currently keep 4 females and that's plenty for me. I've never kept more than 5 grown dogs at any time. Taking in to consideration handling them in the woods,taking care of their needs such as shots,worming,housing and feeding that's about right for me. Plus if and when I run with someone else they always want to bring 4-5.
gfedor. much as I can enjoy the sound of multiple hounds in full cry I've been bracing mine a lot lately. Two just run so smooth together.
Beagle Huntsman. That's a lot of dogs to keep and I don't believe I'd enjoy them nearly as much when it became a lot of work. I don't really like running a big bunch of dogs together. I'm all about the dog work and my observation is that usually when you get a big pack it tends to resemble a Chinese fire drill.
I used to attend the Large Pack on Hare trials when I lived up north. They were fun to go to and visit with folks but it was always my impression that you had probably 10 dogs that had any idea where the line was and 20 others that were just barking and following them.
I've been invited to run with some guys that I'd recently met here at the W.M.A.and I've hooked up with them several times. They like to all get together and turn out 12-15 dogs. I've got to be honest - I don't really enjoy it as the running gets kind of sloppy. Much prefer running a trio. As always J.M.H.O.

[Beagle Huntsman]

I’m the opposite, Dana. I could not be happy without a goodly number of hounds running. A well-matched (large) pack that is used to working together is a rare thing of beauty, and something you’ll remember if you ever see it. And it’s not easy to achieve. You won’t see it at hare trials because those are too competitive and not used to each other.

I watched the Nantucket-Treweryn pack at the Aldie formal pack trials in the early 1980s and that set the bar for my expectations of how a pack should operate. They were owned by an older couple named David and Becky Sharp, two people who had spent a lifetime working with hound packs. They must have been around age 80? then. Their hounds were fast, ran in a bunch, and screamed through the woods. They had great conformation and looked like a pack, not a collection. I will never forget them.

[warddog]

I am down to my last beagle and she is 12 or 13 years old now. Time got away from me when I had both males and females and I never got her bred so the line I kept has been lost. It got to the point around here that places to hunt, run rabbits were few and far in between and what was available held few rabbits so we got into deer hunting more and beagling less. I suspect this may be the last one I have as this last one has just sat in the pen for lack of available rabbit holding properties to hunt, run. It's like every other kind of hunting when one hunts but doesn't see anything. We do NOT even care to harvest them but you must see them to run much less harvest.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Sad to read your post, warddog. I have seen so many people come and go through the years, for various reasons. It takes work to keep a line of hounds going, and a little luck. As far as places to run rabbits, if not for public areas, many of us would struggle to have a place to go. Most private ground does not have the cover rabbits need, or is posted these days. Even still, I cannot imagine not having hounds to run and expect I always will assuming reasonably good health, or unless legislation of some sort stops it. Best wishes to you and kinda hope you reconsider at some point!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Beagle Huntsman
Don't know if you've had any experience running hare in 2 feet of fresh powder snow. I don't believe you'd have much success with 12-18 beagles in those conditions. In fact I think it would be a horror show and they'd be lucky to put a circle on them.
Most mid winter gun hunters up north that I know seldom will run more than 2 or 3 in those conditions. Hard enough for one or two dogs to keep the hare going while swimming through that much snow and any more than that they aren't able to pull scent. Especially when the swamp is all tracked up with dog tracks.
I have great admiration for the formal packs and how they handle, stay under control and the relationships that the formal pack guys have with one another and how they "draft" dogs in to each other's packs.
I ran in the Triple Challenge up at Aldie and got to run with Billy and Mandy Bobbitt. Great folks !
We all have our own likes and opinions on beagles and they are probably mostly formed by our own initiation and experiences. Given that and not wanting to start any arguments I have to say that I did not see any of the formal pack hounds entered that I could refer to as "fast". In fact, during the 3 hour Large Pack Stakes part of the Triple Challenge it was more than obvious that those hounds were not competitive. Some just couldn't keep up and others just quit and hung out with the gallery. They just didn't appear to have the foot, drive or inclination to run with 30 hounds for 3 hours. Not to brag but my female who was 5 weeks pregnant placed second with 98 points and the winner's pack had gotten down to 5 dogs and they were all from Large Pack or A.R.H.A. Little Pack trialing format.
I totally agree with you as to the Large Pack trials as to the dogs being overly competitive and not knowing each other. It makes a difference.
The guys I mentioned getting together with that like to turn out 12-15 dogs? I know why it's not that enjoyable for me. You'll have 3-4 guys that each will bring 3-5 dogs. Some are old, some are barely started, some have foot, some are painfully slow, some will anchor and boo all over the place. They just aren't well matched at all and these fellows don't seem to care or realize.
From your posts I can tell you run a smooth operating pack that will work as a team and I give you kudos for the work and effort that must take.
There's a fellow that runs pretty regular on the W.M.A. where I run that has a formal pack of Bassett Hounds and is part of the group at Aldie. He hauls all his Bassetts in a horse trailer and usually turns out 15-20 of them at a time. He has his "whippers in" to assist him with the pack. When they get one going they sound awesome. Just not for me.
When I coon hunted there was a saying " If you want to hear some music, take 3-4 hounds. But if you want to kill some coons ,take one.
Enjoy and always appreciate your in-put.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Shady: All I can say was you didn’t see the Nantucket-Treweryn in 1981. They were fast to me. More importantly, they functioned as a group - a well oiled team. Mr Sharp rode a little white pony to stay with them. He was very tall, and I remember his legs nearly dragging the ground.

I have been to the Triple Challenge several times. Won the Stakes one year, then took her granddaughter and won it again the next year, and once won the whole event with an old Indian Hills Majer male I had. Judged the brace/trio one year. After I quit field trialing, I no longer had a way to qualify my hounds for entry. It’s my favorite beagling event of all, but very different from watching packs at the regular pack trials. The hounds at the TC are not used to each other, so the Stakes pack class is more like the hare trials, except with somewhat less speed and on cottontail.

Billy and Mandy have actually done well at the TC. Billy had a nice running big male that took second in the brace the year I judged. Think that was 2007. And back in the 90s, Billy won the whole event one year. Mandy has placed several times. They usually do well in the show. I haven’t seen them in years, and I noticed Mandy’s Bedlam pack is no longer listed with the active packs, but Billy’s Glenbarr pack is. Yes, good people.

The few times I have run hare with my hounds was enjoyable, but I would not want to live in the north in winter. Running a big pack on snow is a disaster, as you said. Fortunately, any snow we get in my part of Ohio is gone quickly most years. We have a couple of inches right now, but rain tomorrow will get it, hopefully.

I would love to see/hear those bassets. Do you know the name of the pack? I can’t find a basset pack near you in the latest Hunt Roster published by the Masters of Foxhounds Association. The closest I see would be in Columbus, GA.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Beagle Huntsman
I appreciate your response and congrats. on your successes with your hounds. I've never been real big on trialing but have been able to win/place a few times over the years and it's a good feeling of accomplishment -- especially when it was with a hound that you bred, raised and trained.
The fellow that runs the Bassett hounds actually gave me his business card at one point and darn, I can't find it now. They are known as the Upper Bay Bassetts.
I talked with him last week and he told me he was running as much as he could as he was trying to get his pack tuned up as they are having the formal Bassett pack trials at Aldie in April.
He also told me that he is now in his 70's and is going to be disbanding his pack and getting out of the hounds. I asked him how he was going to find owners for all his hounds and he said he's been in touch with other packs and it is his hope to draft his dogs in to other's packs. He said keeping that big a pack and all that went along with it had just gotten to be too much for he and his wife.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Oh yes, Upper Bay. Thanks Dana. I missed them when looking at the list last night because one of the owners (Masters) lives in Pennsylvania. But now I see the person you met is Richard Askins from Greenback, TN. Very interesting that you know him! There are only about a dozen formal basset packs in the U.S. (Compared to nearly two dozen formal beagle packs). Bassets are big dogs. It would take a lot to feed and house a big pack of them. Too bad he has to disband. That pack started in 1988. Wish my beagles had their voices!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Beagle huntsman
Yes that's the mans name. I'm about 12 miles south of the W.M.A. and Greenback is probably 10 miles to the north. I've run in to him several times there and on other T.V.A. land. My beagles have gotten in with the Bassetts a couple of times and Richard is very cool about it. Nice guy.
He has a couple of hounds that are the very traditional Bassett -- big, heavy headed, super earage. He's got others that are what I would call field Bassetts -- much lighter boned, lighter/smaller hounds. As far as a Bassett can, they had an athletic appearance. He also has several long wolly coated hounds that he has imported from France called Bassett Griffon Vendeen. Pretty interesting and the guy is a wealth of knowledge about the breed.
When i was a teenager I was out pheasant hunting with my retriever and ran in to a guy that was hunting the pheasant with a Bassett and that dog was good.
Ya, their voices ! When his pack opens up it sounds like a Large Pack -- of coon hounds !

[Beagle Huntsman]

Sounds like a bit of a mix. They nickname those French bassets the "fuzzies". There was a whole pack of Griffon Vendeen bassets for many years outside Philadelphia. Owner was James Scarnberg. His pack was all imported from France. When you looked at pedigrees, unless you knew French, you could not read the names. He died a year or so ago.

The pack at Columbus, Georgia has English bassets. They look a lot like some beagles, except maybe longer. Longer legs, very athletic and hard drivers. The English huntsmen decided the smooth coated French bassets were not active enough to catch the big English hare, so they gradually crossed bassets with harriers, foxhounds, and beagles to create what is now called the English basset. That might be what you saw some of in the Upper Bay pack.

There are several types of basset hounds. There are some good videos from France on YouTube (see
Les Grands Bassets Bleus du Pont des Granges) of a pack of bluetick colored bassets. Great great voices. Beautiful hunting country not too far from the Alps in south eastern France.

I have been interested in bassets since I read "Training the Rabbit Hound" by Carl Smith way back when I first started with hounds as a kid. Good little book. He was a basset breeder from the Dayton, OH area. Wrote about hunting them on rabbits and pheasants during the 1920s. Imported some big black and tan bassets from Russia.

I always thought bassets were slow until one came and joined our pack on a farm we were hunting years ago. He led our pack all day. They come in different speeds like beagles. I have had people tell me they are a little more headstrong and harder to pack than beagles.

You ought to shoot some video of the Upper Bay Bassets and post on here so we can hear them! I have to wonder if they can circle rabbits as well as beagles.