How many?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Beagle Huntsman
I've been a collector of books, paintings and prints of hounds for many years now and have accumulated a pretty good little collection of them. I used to be in touch with a book dealer out in New Mexico that specialized in books on hunting, hounds and as he put it "the great outdoors". He was a great source and I bought some of the great classics from way back when from him. He's passed now.
You mentioned Carl E. Smith's book "Training the Rabbit Hound" I have it. Little brown book, copyright 1926 by The Hunter - Trader - Trapper Co. Columbus, Ohio. I also have several old foxhound books published back in the 1940's.
In Carl Smith's book there are quite a few pics of Bassett hounds and it includes a whole chapter on hunting with them. A great picture of the Walhampton Pack from Haseltine England showing 26 Bassetts all sitting / standing posed together. Also has quite a few pics of Willet Randall's original Patch hounds.
Had an invite to run this morning with a new friend [ one of the guys that likes to turn a big bunch loose]. He brought 4 and I brought my 4 and we were having a good run. We were on public ground and a guy he knows pulled up and Davey told him to go ahead and turn loose so we now had 10 dogs on the ground. Enjoyed that run for an hour until he holed. Well, the hounds were all hunting when several opened up and started to drive. After a minute or two I hadn't heard mine and a couple more minutes here come the 4 of them. They won't run anything other than a rabbit even when other dogs do. I yelled to the guys and said you better stop em cause they're trashing. Two of Davey's dogs had already quit it and come back and electricity convinced the other 4 to quickly give it up.
Got all the dogs back together and got another one up for what turned out to be a great run.
Looking forward to tomorrow. My son's wife has some relatives that own a 500 acre farm about 1 1/2 hours from me and they always invite us to bring the beagles for a rabbit hunt once or twice a year. The farm isn't actively farmed much [ maybe 20-30 cows on it ] and is rough hillside pasture pretty grown up and always has been full of rabbits. It's a father and two teenage boys so I usually lay back and let them do most of the shooting. No one else rabbit hunts it and it's one of the very few places I go where you can line the tailgate if you want to.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Sounds like a great farm. Those kind of places are harder and harder to find. I did some scouting this week and found a new (to me) area of public land that looks great for rabbits. I will be there with the pack in the very near future. Rabbits are starting to run big.

The Walhampton pack was probably the greatest basset pack ever bred. Note they were heavily built and had crooked fronts, much like our AKC show bassets today. It wasn’t long after the Walhamptons that the Basset breeders in England started to change their type into the modern English basset I mentioned earlier. Apparently the Walhampton heavy crooked type did not match well with the big brown hares in England.

Interesting story about the Walhampton Bassets: The pack/kennel was started in 1890. Master/owner was Major Godfrey Heseltine. He bred and hunted them until 1932. Major Heseltine committed suicide in 32, apparently due to the effects of the Great Depression losses, or so it was speculated. His pack was sold in 1933. One of the buyers was Dr Eric Morrison, who had whipped for Major Heseltine. Dr Morrison renamed them the Westerby Bassets. He crossed them in later years with harrier and foxhound blood, and even some bloodhound, to create what is known today as the modern English hunting basset. Westerby is probably the most famous English basset pack in recent years.

I used to buy from Mr Salmon at Hi Lonesome Books too. He was into sight hounds on jack rabbit and coyote. Ben Hardaway, famous breeder of the Midland Foxhounds from Georgia, used to take his lurchers and go hunt with Mr Salmon in New Mexico. If you don’t have a copy of Ben’s book “Never Outfoxed”, it’s a great story of how he bred up his foxhound pack. That book, and Robert Wehle’s “Snakefoot” are in my top 5 books ever. Lots of good breeding tips in each.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I had several interesting phone calls over the years with "Dutch" Salmon and bought quite a few books from him including several of his own that he wrote. Good reading ! Also acquired all of the Ben Lilly books, Slash Ranch Hounds by Dub Evans, and one about the hunting life of famous lion hunters Clell and Dale Lee.
I have Ben Hardaway's book "Never Outfoxed". Another really good read!
Never heard of the " Snakefoot" book.

[Beagle Huntsman]

That Dub Evans book is quite a collectors item. Do you have “Meet Mr Grizzly” by Montague Stevens? It tells stories about hunting down the last grizzlies in the southwest. Quite a story and shows what a dangerous and rough life those people and their animals and hounds lived.

I had a neighbor years ago who hunted lions in Arizona once or twice a year with the Lee brothers. Would stay a week or two with them. He seemed to like Clell most. My neighbor kept about 20 bluetick hounds and would trade back and forth with Clell Lee. I used to care for his hounds when he was away.

“Snakefoot: The Making of a Champion” was written by Robert Wehle, breeder of the Elhew Pointers. It is packed with dog breeding information.

Another great foxhunting book is Mason Houghland’s “Gone Away”. He was the grandfather of Mason Lampton. Lampton married one of Ben Hardaway’s daughters and took over hunting and breeding the Midland Foxhounds after Ben stopped hunting and later died.

There are so many others. And new books keep coming!

[likeemfast]

At the moment 6, usually keep 3-4. Oldest female is 12, she’s still a hard hunter and jumps plenty, but runs the backend now instead of the front, two 5yr olds a male and female and 3 pups at 7 months that are progressing very well, 2 males and a female, harvesting cottontails off them at 6 months.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Beagle huntsman
Yes, I have the Montague Stevens book. You talk about some tough hunting, those folks from back then were hard core.
Here's some others I have that you might have heard of or read. For a houndsman, no matter what game you pursue these are great reading .
" The American Trail Hound" by Fred Streever copyright 1948 - fox hunting in New York's Adirondacks.
" Hounds in the Hills" by Edward A. Briggs copyright 1938 -- fox hunting/ running north and south.
" Hunter's Horn" by Harriete Arnow copyright 1949 -- a great fox hunting story.
" Brave" by Steve M. Mathis copyright 1988 -- California lion and South America Jaguar hunting with his hounds.
" Stories of Old Traveler" by B.S. Jones copyright 1966 -- collection of Bobcat hound hunting stories in Florida.
"The New Complete Beagle" by Henry J. Colombo, Lew Madden, Owen M. Payne, A.D. Holcombe and Morgan Wing Jr. copyright 1966 .
All of Obe Corey's books on lion and bear hunting in Idaho.
"Walk With Wick" by John Wick -- covers all aspects of hunting with tree hounds and the different breeds.
Probably 30+ years ago I had the opportunity to visit with Warren Haslour of Smokey River Bluetick fame and listen to his stories of Jaguar hunting in the Matto Grosso area of Brazil at his home in Oklahoma. Some great hound dogging stuff !
I almost forgot to mention probably one of my favorites which is " Call Of The Hounds" by Del Cameron copyright 1999. His letter head advertised him as a Professional Hunter, Big Game Outfitter, Wilderness Guide. He pioneered professional lion and bear hunting in the northern Rockies and was the only full time professional lion and bear guide in Montana for many years.
I had the opportunity to correspond with Dell several times when I was writing a monthly column in Full Cry magazine for the Bluetick Breeders and Coonhunter's Association. He sent me an autographed copy of his book.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Dana: I have most of those you mentioned. I think I have every beagle book ever written - many from English authors. I love the Old Traveler book about foxhunting in the orange groves of central Florida prior to all the development of that area. I was talking to someone not long ago who lived in that area and knew all about Mr Jones.

The Mathis book is apparently hard to find and is one I don’t have. I need to renew my search for it. I have never cared for tree (coon) hound hunting, but bare ground lion hunting interests me. I have several books on that.

Do you have the Rycroft book? It’s an outstanding compilation of the articles Newton Rycroft wrote for Hounds magazine over a 15 year period. Nobody knew more about English hounds of all types than he did. Book was compiled by James Scharnberg, who had the fuzzy bassets in Pennsylvania. If you don’t have it, send me your address - I somehow have two!

Derrydale Press is the best source of modern hound hunting books. They even reprinted Joe Thomas’ book “Hounds and Hunting Through The Ages” - another classic.

Yes, I have the Cameron book. A good one. Really like the look of his hounds. Reminds me of those my neighbor had years ago.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Found that Double U Hunting Supply has several of the books we mentioned, including some uncirculated copies of “Brave”, so I have an order placed. Always glad to add to the library!

[RiverBottom]

I keep about 20 dogs and always run at least 8 at a time. I hunt hare, all winter, in all kinds of conditions. It isn't easy and my dogs are far from perfect, but it can be done and has been done. Deep snow makes it easier. Right now we are running on hard old crust with lots of rabbits and it can get pretty ugly at times with dogs spread out all over. Much easier to get good running with one or two dogs. Breeding and running a good pack takes more skill and hard work than most houndsmen are willing to give it and I don't blame them. But when everything works it's something to see (and hear). You can't get that running a couple dogs.
Large pack hare dogs are just about the opposite of what you want for pack dogs. I won't keep a dog that is competitive. I also agree with Beaglehuntsman that you can't breed dogs consistently without keeping a lot of dogs. 20 isn't enough. Ben Hardaway raised about 200 puppies a year.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Very interesting post, RiverBottom. Do I know you? I don’t envy you trying to run hare with a pack. You never hear of people trying that on snow. And I agree that today’s LPH hounds are probably not the best choice for pack running. If I had to start over and didn’t have access to my current lines, I would probably look at the UBGF or PA/NE trial hound lines for something to start a pack. The UBGF is running a stronger hound than they did years ago. With my own hounds, competitiveness is an issue I fight, but I enjoy the exciting runs when they are running at their best.

[RiverBottom]

I came and hunted with you a few years back

I'm not much good at shooting video but here's one Bud and Keith shot a few years ago. I think we put over 20 miles on the dogs that day. All of those dogs were hunted on hare in a pack all winter in all conditions, none were ever soloed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMyHJFkqNAY&t=182s

[Beagle Huntsman]

Yes, I thought that was you. That's been quite a few years. Good to hear you are still beagling.

I was under the impression hare hunters never used more than 2-3 hounds on snow. Good to see a pack is possible. I was struck by how close the hounds were to the hare at each crossing. The cottontails I am used to are always much farther ahead of the hounds. I don't remember hounds being that close the few times I have run hare.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I've always felt that a wild hare only runs as fast or far as he has to. If you are running medium speed hounds the hare knows they aren't going to catch him so he just glides around his territory as they hounds follow him.
When a group of fast accurate hounds are really putting the pressure on him and making him run for his life he's apt to put some distance between them and himself.

[ericwaddle3]

I’ve only spent one weekend running hare. Would love to do it again. Sure was something to listen too. Of course at the time I owned prolly the 2 best hounds I’ve ever owned in my lifetime, plus to other above average hounds. One chase went 18 miles. After three days they where pretty much gutted. Big difference from running cottontails everyday.

[Hare Chaser]

For the most part most game pursued by hounds will only run as far and as fast as it has to in order to eliminate the threat of becoming lunch! Wild animals dont expend any more energy than they have to in order to survive. Really good track dogs will make their own good running on good scenting days, having the ability to keep the pressure on their game. Good track dogs are not common. There’s a plethora of average dogs that make most people happy. After all, if there was an abundance of exceptional track dogs wouldn’t they just become the average at that point?