Controversial post (Enter at own risk)

[WSRandy]

Looking at results the last couple of months got me to thinking. I have never seen as many PP trials with as few of numbers as they are now. State hunts with 30 to 40 total dogs.......numerous trials with 10 open dogs. There must be 8-10 clubs that had the minimum numbers last month, and a bunch of others who had 15 or less. Now I do notice some clubs pull good numbers still, but they are far and few between. And the regionals still pulling big numbers.

Now before any of you go on the defensive about how "Randy is just mad at the PP because they took his birthday away" lol, let me say, I have no desire to run under the current situation, if I did I would have just moused up and been a good little boy. When I was told how the ownership and leaders made PP grow to what it is and not the people paying the $$, I took that personal..... since I knew who had spent $300-$500 or more running dogs every weekend, I know who puts 50,000 miles on a truck every year, bringing in new people, signing up new dogs and clubs and it wasnt the "leaders". I had done seen how dishonest it could be and the lack of respect for us common people who pay the bills. At that point, I wouldnt have been back much anyway.....with or without a ban, I was done. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me It would be nice to have had the choice of going and visiting with old friends at trials, but I will play by their rules and just keep in touch in other ways.

I am not taking cheap shots at anyone. I am just asking for input from those of you who attend them and may know.

I would just like to hear some opinions on why the numbers are down. Is it that there are too many clubs? Not as many trialers? Is it the leadership? What do you all think the problem is?

Now lets hear it, dont be backwards!

Guests are gone so you all step up and stand tall, good or bad.......let me have it.

Best to you,
Randy

[swing]

Randy,
I cant afford to lose anymore birthdays. lol

[Redtick]

Randy, there are alot of options when it come to competition beagling. I think you can run into some similar problems with alot of the different beagle programs. I know I spent alot of time recently helping some local clubs get started and the fellow that runs that program for that registry just dumped a load on me. He wasn't spending his time and his money trying to get those clubs started, I was, but I saw in the magazines where he was trying to take the credit. It will be too bad when these and other local clubs fail because they can't get enough entries. I always entered a good number of dogs whether I thought I could win or not, just to help some clubs get started. Some folks will bite the hand that feeds them and then wonder what happened, regardless of the registry.

[yellow mt. kennels]

RANDY,
HEY THERE, HOW'S IT GOING? HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU, AND THE FAMILY!!

MONEY IS TIGHT WITHE THE ECONOMY IN ITS UP AND DOWN MODE. MORE SO NOW THAN IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. JOBS HAVE BEEN LOST--PUTTING FOLKS ON A TIGHTER BUDGET MORE SO NOW. WHICH MEANS LESS AND LESS LEFT OVER TO RUN UP AND DOWN THE ROAD!! EVEN FOR THE DIE HEART TRIALERS!!!
I KNOW, I ONLY MAKE 18-25 HUNTS A YEAR ANYWAY WHEN TIMES ARE PRETTY GOOD MYSELF, AND TIMES ARE DEFFINATELY TIGHT NOW!!!!! PLUS I'VE GOT ONE IN COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COSTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE ARE MORE CLUBS, SO FOLKS DON'T HAVE TO TRAVEL AS FAR, AND CAN STAY CLOSER TO HOME. NOR DO THEY HAVE TO GANG UP ALL IN ONE SPOT AT ONE HUNT, SO THEU CAN SPREAD OUT AND SUPPORT OTHER CLUBS.

ITS ALSO SMACK DABB IN THE MIDDLE OF GUN SEASON IN MOST PLACES, AND MOST RABBIT HUNTERS ARE DOING JUST THAT "RABBIT HUNTIN"!!!! BUT THAT WILL CHANGE IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. HERE IN NC IT ENDS THE LAST OF FEB.

AND ALOT OF THESE STATE HUNTS ARE EARLY THIS YEAR, WHICH ARE AFFECTED BY THE GUN SEASON ALSO, AS WELL AS THE CLUB HUNTS.

SOME CLUBS HAVE CHANGED THE DATES OF HUNTS, AND SOME OF THE BIGGER HUNTS HAVE CHANGED LOCATIONS. THIS AFFECTS FOLK'S WORK SCHEDULES, AND TIME OFF.

PLUS THERE'S ALWAYS THE NEGATIVE STUFF THAT GOES ON IN PLACES, THAT PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN THINGS!!!!!

AS THE SAYING GOES, "YOU CAN MESS UP ALOT OF GOOD, WITH A LITTLE BIT OF EVIL"!!!!!!!!!

JUST ONE MAN'S VIEW----KEEP UM RUNNIN, AND HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!

JAMES DAVIS
YELLOW MT. KENNELS

[Big Dog]

I would say the bad weather has hampered trialing some. I haven't been to a trial since November, mainly because it is gun season and that is what I breed and train dogs for. For the most part trialing is just something to do when gun season isn't in, for me.

Big Dog

[DarrinG]

mainly because it is gun season and that is what I breed and train dogs for. For the most part trialing is just something to do when gun season isn't in, for me.

Big Dog

Could not have said it any better!

[Danny King]

Well buddy as you know I was an avid trialer well when they blue balled you i quit going and only went to my home club. Then it made it worse they put me on probation for telling the truth well they can **beep** **beep** **beep**. Better not say that to load dont want to loose my birthday. Oh yea they can have my judges cards to. Thats why numbers are down. Ive seen it to.


Danny King

[swing]

Who was in control the day of the certification where they bypassed the normal certification place to go behind the local store to detour the deer problem?

[Jesse Duncan]

Randy our PP club here in Martinsville hasn't been holding any good numbers either. I think if I remember right our best hunt had 17 opens 10 champs and 3 grands Last year I scheduled a 3 day hunt for our club in October. Well it was toward the hound of the year race and I knew the points were close and there was no other hunts around, so I figured I would draw a lot of dogs. SHOOT . We barely drawed enough dogs to have a hunt each day. I really don't know what is going on man. Its so messed up right now. I think some of the reason why is because the one that are well known have crossed the pond and are burned out on it. At least that is what I get from some of those have been there and done that a few times. . Later days Jesse Duncan

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

There was a good trun out both days this weekend in Ohio even with the bad weather.

I sent my dogs down Saturday with my kennel partner and he said the hunt went well.

I went down sunday and ran a few dogs and judged a couple casts.

We visited with every body and every one had a great time.

Seems to me like things are going fine.

I know the only reason I haven't been trialing is because it is hunting season. I'll start hitting it pretty hard as our season dies down.

[WSRandy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I appreciate this not becoming a slash fest since that wasnt my intentions.

Mr. Davis, Hope the family is doing well. I look forward to seeing you all again sometime.

I thought about hunting season and the slow economy and we have had both for several years, but yet I never seen it impact the numbers before. I know when I ran a lot in 2002 & 2003 I never once seen a trial with 10 dogs and the closest I seen(even if I was late) was Chillicothe, Ohio in 10" of snow...........but they still had 13-14 opens. I looked back at the last 3 years of hunt results, and its hard to find ANY hunts with 10 opens before this year, hunting season or not.

Jesse, MCBC 3 day hunt made me sick! I remember when we would pull 50+ dogs to a club hunt in Indiana. The last thing I ever wanted to see happen was PP go backwards in Indiana. I still encourage my friends to go and have fun and enjoy what they enjoy and not worry about me or my dogs.....but I have some buddy's who still refuse to participate in PP trials anymore. I wish they would go, because the only way PP will ever be itself is for the good people on the inside to stay active and change it, those on the outside need to sign up, get active and start going. If everyone quits, then the fox is left with the hens.

Danny, easy my friend, you dont wanna do what I did. I couldnt believe they did that to you for speaking how you feel, but nothing surprises me with them anymore. Heck, they should give probation to the guy that asked you to name who you was talking about, lol..... he's the one that got you to say the name. But you see how they deal with it......you know ALL TO WELL.

I felt like the number of clubs could be part of it......but I know we lost some clubs in this area as well, which I figured would help bump other clubs numbers....but it didnt happen.

Leadership, well, I felt like maybe the inconsistency in punishment and the egos is catching up to them in a public way. They dont care if you all run in a HOY race against 100 dogs or 10 dogs. And the truth be known, some of the participants in that race last year would just as soon run against 10 dogs as 40!

Well thats my 2 cents. I am outta here to work on my truck. Yesterday was last day of rabbit season......have to go north to hunt now. You all take care and I will talk at you later.

Thanks for everyones input.

Randy

[Indiana Brian 2]

NOOOOOOO....must......not......post............

Too late, you've got my attention. Nice to hear all your opinions, and I'm glad you all chose not to bash...at least mostly. OK...Now for my opinion. I'm not saying this to bash, so please don't take it that way. These are only "concerns" I have which I think maybe the leadership should look into.


1. Current judging practices. ARHA PP needs to really look at their judging practices. It is far too easy in the current format to "buddy judge" or whatever you want to call it. Let's face it, if I'm dishonest and I'm the only one calling the shots, I can bring back any dog I want. Also, the current setup with only one person (judge) calling the shots restricts fair judging because it is simply too hard for one man (or woman) to keep up with six dogs intent on catching a rabbit. Fact is, they will miss a lot of scoring. I recently attended my first UKC trial, and I think the judging is much more fairly done. The cast has imput, the judge speaks to the cast, the whole cast usually sees the scoring first hand..ect. Not just one guy who has ultimate control over the whole thing.

2. Pickup practices. Ok, now I know I'm not going to make any friends by saying this, but it is my opinion. I don't want to drive three states away to attend a trial only to be "picked up" withing 10 minutes of starting the cast. I'm not advocating turning our heads and pretending nothing is wrong. All I'm saying is even if the dog is messing up I would rather let him run and let the score speak for itself. If a dog is doing too much wrong (which is why he gets picked up) then minus him or whatever and he won't win. But for crying out loud, let him run. His owner took a Saturday, paid for gas ($1.89 a gallon right now ) and paid his entry fees to RUN his dog. I say let him run.

3. Political Practices. Yes, POLITICS! I know most of you know what I'm talking about, so I won't go there. But, I do believe the current situation is strained, to say the least.

Lastly, I want to say again I'm not trying to disrespect ANYONE. These are my concerns tho. I think our leadership should examine current practices within ARHA and compare them to other practices. Find the good points and put them in action. Find the flaws, and fix them. We need an organization which will appeal to the majority of beaglers, and to be frank I don't think we have it yet.

Other than these things, I think it is a pretty good program.

Brian

[crewchf]

Randy hunting is down everywhere in the country. I've been running Paulding forrest all season here in Ga,, ain;t seen the first small game hunter yet, never mind beaglers!!!! A whole bunch of yuggins out there ain't into this like some of us are. To Busy paying for houses, cars, boats and whatever else society tells them they need to look cool in this world of ours. Its a shame!!!

Rich Piacentine

[Redtick]

I was really roasted when I posted similar observations as Indiana Brian a couple of years ago but I wasn't as tactful as Brian was. My personal opinion is that I don't like any judging where I don't have a say in how the dogs are scored. So, for the most part, I only attend events where the entire cast participates in the judging. Is it the best way to judge a beagle, that is for everyone to decide for themselves? But for me, it is better than only getting what some possibly biassed and possibly corrupt judge will hand you. This is just my opinion and every has an opinion.

[Bev]

Redtick be fair. You were roasted for saying something else, within that thread of discussing formats. I'm not going to bring it out here, but just wanted you to know I hadn't forgotten.