The American Beagler Forum

I have a little female that is giving me a hard time w/ deer lately. I have always run her w/ a shock collar and have lit her up a 1/2 dozen times for deer chases and thought I had her pretty well broke for a while.

I'd spot deer in a field and walk her over to them and she wouldn't offer to run the track. She'd even look back at me like I know you are going to shock me if I start this track.

Well, the last couple trips to the field she has started running deer silent and then will start opening up when she gets just about 1/2 mile away. My 1 mile range collars often won't work out that far in the terrain and cover I hunt in - so this has led to two all nights out running deer.

What can I do? Any suggestions? Anyone had success w/ a dog like this? I spent 2 hours looking for her yesterday and 3 hours today until I found her. Not worth it to me to keep her if you all don't think she can be broke.

Thanks,
Pete

put her in a 55 galoon drum with a bunch of deer scent, hocks and legs. hang the barrel from a tree and twist the rope as much as possible,,,then let it go...meanwhile shocking her with the shock collar...do this until she vomits and poops all over the place.....or you can put her in a barrel with a lid with above meantioned scents and roll her down a big hill a couple of times....if this does not work...GET RID OF HER...i did this 4-5 years ago to 2 of our dogs and they have not ran deer since....hope this helps....good luck...scott

In my experience,It is in her to want to run deer if she has figured out a way to get away with it.She will never really be broke.
I had a dog years ago that gave me trouble like you are talking about and I finnally got him broke but when he got to be about 5 or 6 years old he started again.I have decided if I cannot break a dog in a few sessions with the shock collar, I get rid of them.
Fortunatly with the line of dogs I have, I have very little trouble with offgame.And I also keep them away from known deer dogs until they are running rabbits real well.
Rabbit hunting is supposed to be a pleasure and there is nothing that will ruin a great day worse than a deer race, especialy if it leads to looking for your dogs for 2 or 3 days.

Briarhoppers,

Save yourself and everyone you run with some heartaches. The best rabbit dog i ever had was as you described and it took me 2 years to make myself get rid of her cause i always thought i had her broke this time. This dog is grief waiting to happen. Please don't sell her to someone unsuspecting. There are some places that still have few deer i sold one that ran deer last year to a guy on the Texas Louisiana border and he knew she ran deer as i told him and sold her very cheap she was a great rabbit dog. She would go long time and never offer to run one the do it just for spite.

Pete, everyone has there own opinion on this subject. What has worked for one won't always work for another. I believe that your dog has become wise to you. She has figured out just how much she can get away with and when to do it. Your looking for suggestions, so heres mine. Start by teaching her to hunt close by, this is not a bad thing. I like my young dogs to stay close to me so I can see what their doing. Don't let her get a 1/2 mile away, thats what she wants. If she starts ranging too far out, get her back closer. This might require just a light bump on the collar, this is where a tone function really helps. She is already collar wise to you shocking her off deer at close range, so she probably won't try it in close. This is a hard habit to break but not impossible. If she stays close,more than likely you will know whats in front of her. Some might give up on dogs like this, but I like to think that a dogs behavior can be corrected if given the proper training. The more rabbits she can run with plenty of praise, the better. Most dogs are willing to please you. Good Luck.

If she has had the "treatment" from Tri-Tronics that many times and is now slipping away on deer and not opening until she knows she's far enough from you...I myself would probably cut my losses and cull the dog. I had a friend once who tried the deer hide in a barrel rolling down a hill methond...he rolled the dog off a hill and when he opened the lid t the barrel, his dog was dead, apparently from a broke neck. I wouldn't recommend that one myself!

I have tried the beagle in a barrel trick and it failed miserably. I suggest you try borrowing a tri tronics trashbreaker from a friend (2 mile range )/ I guarantee if you can hear the dog barking you will reach her with plenty of zing!!!!!!! The trash breaker is a much hotter system too. I live in the Adirondack mountains and have never had a dog I could hear get out of range / my buddies with the classic 70's were scratching their head but my hounds were burning hair!

In the end I think you will have to cut your losses and dump her. She has definetly associated running deer and your presence. Thats what happens when you holler to hounds and zing them at the same time. Zing them first in good shape / then after a couple of minutes do the calling / they should want to come to you for safety, she has definetly figured out you and the collars go together.

Goodluck

Joe

Theres plenty of guys looking for deer dogs, send her down the road or
put her in a hole...............................................................

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions. I will continue to work w/ the hound for a while longer and you all would too if you could see her run a rabbit. She is smart! She has a big nose, good foot and can make most other beagles look silly on a rabbit.

Just been the last couple trips out that she has given me a lot of trouble w/ deer. I had her broke for a while. And this started when I ran her w/ another guy's hound that started a deer the other week. She ran w/ this hound silent for a while and on their seond time around she was opening up. Should have been more careful w/ her, but you don't always know what to expect or what you are getting into when running w/ someone else.

If anyone else has any input, I am all ears.
-Pete

I have a dog and i put it in a 55 gal. drum and with a deer skin and it made him like deer more that way

I strongly suggest you keep the dog in absolutly straight company or alone. Expose it to deer scent as much as possible wheather it runs the scent or not each time you know it smell the scent shock it . Don`t yell or call the dog when this is going on. Burn it in short bursts untel it runs completely away from the scent. Give it A short time to deside what it is going to do. Then call it in and send it in another derection looking for A bunny every time it runs A bunny and finishes the track make A big thing out of it. Lots and lots of praise. Do this untel you see the dog run away from or back to you each and every time it smells deer. This may seem harsh but it will work as long as you have the patience to out last the dog. I have had it take 6to8 months of this before the dog will run from the scent. Good luck Roy

Briarhopper I would agree with both sides. I know this sounds a little funny, but let me explain. If you are a very patient person who has alot of time to put into the dog, and really have alot vested emotionally, financially, then I would tend to agree with Bunnyjumper. I think you can correct most dog behavior,.....but it takes ALOT of time and hard-core consistancy and determination. Time and determination most folks are not willing to put in either out of time constraints, lack of patience, or know-how,.....and that's o.k...don't get me wrong. Some dogs are really not worth the effort it takes to get them to change. I'm not knocking anyone that would get rid of this dog. BUT,...I think if you were really determined to change her and were armed with good strategy it could probably be done. On the other hand, if you're not ready to pull all your hair out and lay awake at night wondering what you're doing wrong, then I would agree with some of the others and send her on her way. Make no mistake about it, you're looking at a potentially long road in getting the dog finally broke. I believe that maybe she was never really broke,...she just figured out how to get around the fact of getting punished for it. We train alot of dogs here for people, and we have had some "hard cases" come along, and I can tell you that it's no easy task no matter what the behavioral problem might be. I usually start very small and look at the obvious first,..or at least try to. Then work up from there. Just like teaching someone to drive. You wouldn't think of putting a 16 y.o. kid behind the wheel first without the basic knowledge of road safety and the workings of the car. A kid behind the wheel with little knowledge of road safety is a dangerous thing. I used to be a driving instructor part-time. You find that you have to go back and change that kids' way of thinking, change the way he views the priveledge of driving, and usually curb his ego a little. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. The same holds true with dogs I've found. It's just that most folks don't want to take the time or simply don't have the time it takes to figure out what makes that dog tick. Every dog is different. Not every solution will work on everyone's dog. You've got to find out what YOUR dogs' is. I don't want to come across like some kind of dog psychologist or anything like that. But dogs can be very trying sometimes the same way people can. Good luck with your decision.

- Steve

Briarhopper,
YOU CAN BREAK THIS DOG! You have tought her to not bark on track by shocking her for barking. Try shocking her while she's not barking! You'll probably have to set her up several times, and bust her before she opens!!! This happens alot with coonhounds, and they too can be broke, I've done it! I don't know that i'd ever breed her though .

mouse trap! an old beagler told me that a mouse trap or a small rat trap is the best deer breaking tool he has ever seen.put deer scent on the trap & set it,let the dog sniff it & he gets a sore nose.i asked him if this has ever caused the dogs not to be able to smell as good & he said it has no affect on there scenting.the old timer swears by it.i have never tried it my self but he has never had any problems with deer.

time to cull i would say . its one thing for a started dog to bump a deer or two and get a lesson, but if this is a more experienced dog that previously had been "broke" and is trashing again, id cut my losses before you ruin any other dogs that get run with this one.