The American Beagler Forum

Last weekend I ran three dogs (A, B and C) on hare. At one point, they were all together and running hard. The hare came close to the road, then made a sharp right hand turn, ran for a ways, then made another right hand turn. Dogs all came together on the track, close behind the hare. A and B went off the end about ten feet at the turn, came back and picked it up, went to the next turn and did the same thing. Dog C made the turn without going over, made the next turn also without missing a bark. At this point A and B were falling behind, even though they both had good foot speed and came right back to the point of loss.

A few checks later and A and B got so far behind they quit that rabbit and found their own rabbit to run while dog C ran the original rabbit out of hearing and back. Now, I have seen "medium speed" dogs that can do the same thing dog C did. We have one with a lot of Short breeding that runs good and has very good line control, but she can't begin to keep up with dog C.

Dog C is a little mouthy, she don't hunt hard, A & B jump a lot more rabbits than old C does. But I kill a lot more rabbits in front of C than A or B or the Short dog and I have a lot more fun doing it. Dog C runs about the same style on the bad days. Even when it is 20 below, dog C will sooner or later get up close to a hare and make it run for it's life.

Dog C has a brother that belongs to a buddy I'll call him D. D can out run C. He hunts full speed, all the time. When he hits one of those turns he keeps going straight until he hits another track and then it's off to the races again. On good days, D is exciting to hunt with, on bad days, D will freeze you to death waiting for a rabbit to come by to shoot at.

When I get on here and talk about fast dogs, I'm talking about dog C. Dogs A, B, D have plenty of speed but they are not fast. The Short dog is a good dog. I could kill lots of rabbits with her on good conditions and if I leave C home, but then why would I leave C home?

What do you think?

TOM FOR WHAT ITS WORTH I THINK YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION . I WILL SACRIFCE A LITTLE EXTRA MOUTH FOR ONE THAT WILL LOCK ON TO IT ... FAST IS NEAT BUT NOT ALWAYS EFFICENT






JUST MY THOUGHTS
JIMBO2

have u tried soloing dog c to improve her hunt?
sure sounds like u have a bad problem maybe i need to take c of ur hands to let u hunt slower dog lol!

Sounds like dogs A & B have more speed than nose. May also dogs A & B are to competitive with each other and maybe are trying to run each other instead of the Hare. Just a thought

Tom

Sorry, but you only have one dog! "C"

Moving around physically in a fast manner is not a fast dog no more so than a dog that covers more ground hunting at a run is a better jump dog. Winding Bird dogs, yes, not Beagles.

A fast dog moves fast running the rabbit, not correcting its mistakes.

I think a nose plus physical ability makes a fast dog. No dog can run faster than its nose will let it or its running wild not fast. I will say though that a fast running dog runs an easier track and gets more scent and less tricks pulled since it is closer to the rabbit.

I like it that the wild ones quit running with "C". That should tell you what you want to know.

Your friends that overruns far enough to pick up another rabbit should be shot as all it will do is mess up the REAL dog.

Just my humble opinion!

John, you said a lot and didn't use many words to say it, kinda like the way a good dog runs a rabbit!

Now let me tell you about dogs E, F, G & H.....
Aww, never mind.

Tom

I know you know what a good dog is!

E F G H is your holdouts and could not be in this discussion.

That's the ones I would take home.

When folks come to look at the A B and maybe even 'C" and your friends dog, I'll bet these 4 will be in the smoke house or under a tub. Hope they stay quiet or there will be questions!!!

TomMN wrote:But I kill a lot more rabbits in front of C than A or B or the Short dog and I have a lot more fun doing it.

I think that pretty much says it all!!

One thing I have noticed when watching dogs like "C" run is that when they are driving a rabbit they don't have their nose on the ground. At a check or when working up a track they keep their nose down but when they get up close to the rabbit, and they usualy do sooner or later, they run with their head up. To do that they have to have a "big nose" along with the ability to run air scent.

Here's something I watched last Friday. We turned loose about 10AM, hunting hare in the pine trees, it was cold, 10 degrees, frozen bare ground, lots of pine needles and dry. Scenting was terrible and all the dogs were struggling to keep a hare going. At one point dogs A and C bumped into a rabbit and were running hard (E G H and F were still in the smoke house). The rabbit came by right to left, stopped (we weren't shooting any yet), made a half circle back around me to the right and then disappeared behind me.
A and C came on the track, A trailed up to where the rabbit stopped and had a check, stopped, searched for the track and struggled to get it going back the way it went. C came on, head up, made a sharp left where the rabbit doubled back (without going all the way to where it stopped), went around me on the right and over the hill behind me. C never slowed her pace from full speed and never lost the track (until a little bit later, she's good but not perfect).

A dog that trails the rabbit, head down, could not have done what C did. I'm not saying a good, big nosed, trailing hound could not have kept the rabbit going, I'm just saying it would have taken a lot longer and I would have gotten colder waiting than I needed to.

OK Tom here goes.

When rabbit ran in front of you from right to left, there was a slight wind on your back. The baromatic pressure was in the 30.something or at least the high 20's.something, meaning scent was laying within 1-3 feet of the ground.
A winder "C" on bare ground is seldom running a line right where the rabbit came by but is usually a few feet downwind following the air scent, not the rabbits tracks. A winder will run right where the rabbit went in scerecia or high weeds, since it then is following body scent, not air scent left on the sides of the high weeds.

Frozen bare ground is hard on a foot scent follower.

When a house is on fire, we were taught to crawl as the smoke will rise a little off the floor and leave a space to breath next to the ground. Same with scent, on some days it will hover off the ground. A heads up dog has its nose in it and a nose down dog has its nose below it.

What would the smoke house gang have done?

"What would the smoke house gang have done?"

Shot the rabbit, caught the dogs, went back to the cabin, drank coffee and argue about who has the best dog?

Alabama John,, I've got an 18 month old female that when the going gets tough she'll get up on her back legs and sniff the air. Is she looking for airbourne rabbit scent??? My other ones don't do this, just wondering???

Crew Chief

Crew Chief
Sounds like you have a winder.
She's young and learning but I'll bet when she learns as soon as you turn her loose, she will hunt with the wind in her face. You can help her by hunting into the wind ever how slight.
Congratulations! They are born, not trained.

Thanks John,, She is the leader of my bunch for sure!!! Last weekend she floored us cause she wouldn't let our 5 month old pup play out in the field. She has taught him to hunt in the field and play at the house!!! It's amazing how smart these beagles really are!!!

Crew Chief

I have a 6 year old male that will stop when hunting for a rabbit and look up in the air like he is looking for a treed rabbit or something but he always does it into the wind. He can jump with the best of them. I had one wind runner in the late 80ies that never, I mean never, ran with the track between his legs, usually 3 to 6 feet off the line but he could smoke a hare day in and day out, it was a pleasure to watch him and to hunt with him. Hare