The American Beagler Forum

Cheating or not?
It seems everywhere you go you always hear of somebody saying they got cheated somewhere or another at one time....Well I go to thinking that maybe not everybody gets cheated like they claim they do....Maybe they just don't know or understand the rules.

What do you guys think? Maybe they just go plain cheated, maybe they didn't know the rules and thought they got cheated or maybe the judge just didn't know the rules and nobody ever questioned the judge...

Point I am trying to make is maybe you aren't always getting cheated, maybe you just don't understand the rules.....

I found the only way not to feel cheated is to understand how not to get cheated...So I learned all the rules forwards and backwards, inside and out to ensure I never get cheated and there is never any question that I did because if I feel like I did the scorecard would look kinda like this. ????????????

Just a thought...

my friends get cheated every time they get beat and have for the last 15 years.lool

many folks in a gallery try to judge from what they here but what u hear and whats goin on alot of times can be 2 totally different things if u have judged u know this for a fact~!

There is a couple of things that I have discovered about the people that get cheated the most often. #1 is their dog is just not near as good as they think it is, a lot of thimes it is down with a couple of dogs that is better then it is at that hour. #2 They don't judge, and never haveso they really don't even know what is happening the most of the time. I 'm not pointing this at just a few I'm referring to all cast I've ever been in . Almost ever time I've heard complaints it has been one of those two. The third is just a few peoples name that are always brought up when cheating is mentioned and I don't even know them, but find it strange that people from 10 or 12 different clubs from thre or four states mention the same couple names, so there may be a small amount of cheating but I think it is more isolated to certain people and certain clubs.

Chaffin Crank, you are correct if you're talking about any trials except AKC where the judge calls everything and you can't put ????? on a "scorecard".

Yeah I know a few guys that get cheated quite often, when their dog does not win. And these same guys have never judged and are going by what they here.

You mean people really cheat? News to me .

i think theres a matter of cheatin going on but as a judge one of the most
misunderstood concepts of the listening judges are check stealing. alot
of times hounds will show other hounds the line in a check situation and
go five or ten yards and then come back to were they started you get
that better nosed dog or more experienced hound that takes it on out, the other hounds harkin and they hammer the rabbit until the next break
down. sometimes this is hard to explain to a novice trailer.

I run in the UKC mostly and I see more slick handeling than Cheating,but thats why you must know the rules,then you can keep folks honest. Realy its hard to Cheat in the UKC,1 you have to have more than 1 cast member in on it,2 the Master of hounds has to be in on it. As long as the Judge is consistant in his calls to the rules he can't be cheating,if he isn't then question it in a way the registery calls for. I finaly learned to take it on the chin and grin when my hound looses,its alot more fun that way. I've been guility of saying I've been cheated but its useuly a excuse,but if you actuly are being cheated then by all means let the registery you are running know by formal complaint and try to weed the cheaters out.

I find this topic very difficult to address. I am positive that I have been cheated twice in a 12 yr career of trialing in the CKC. I was used as a marshall in the first instance and the winning dog completed her requirements to be a CKC champion this also made her an IFC[not correct title but used to describe a dual AKC and CKC champ]. The club had no members so the marshalls were from other clubs. We picked up the dogs ordered by the judges as required and never had a glimpse of the winning dog no 3 to be exact. This soured a few and we then did not run dogs under the judges for a time. Having mellowed after 4 or 5 years I then ran under the same judge last year. Same treatment different no [22]just not the same judge as a partner thus the one fellow led two buddies down the garden path. As it is some difficult to prove the only method available is to not support these fellows as judges. As the season developed these judges got to view fewer and fewer contestants .The dog that won in the second
instance was an AKC champ as well but I doubt it will make its CKC requirements cause the numbers decreased to less than 10 dogs from 30 plus . It ran only once again in Canada and was picked up for babbling I doubt the owner needs the hassle. These trials are not the norm and I will support the trails we have here as the quality of judging is supreme.
Just a bad apple and as it is not common I think the evidence provided by other s in non support turn the heads of the clubs in the judging selection process. I am not a whiner and I will not stop taking my hounds to trials but I sure know who to dodge.
If we add the trials upduring the 12 years there would be surely over 100 so 2% is tolerable . I hear the whining as well but the competition is better now than it was when I started and thus we can all get thru it L&S monk

I run mostly UKC right now. I justed wanted to throw this out there because I hear alot of this and would like people to educated themselves a little more on the rules (no matter what type of trial). It is hard to get cheated in UKC if you know the rules. I think the problem is people think they know the rules, but they really only know about half of them.

Just wanted people to stop and think about things before they go around saying they had been cheated and starting arguments that could be avoided.

I had this post on another board and can you believe it got deleted.....

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD GET IT DONE BUT IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR
ALL CLUB MEMBERS FROM EVERY FORMAT TO TAKE THE JUDGES TEST, NOT
THAT THEY SHOULD JUDGE. AT LEAST THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN THRU
THE RULE BOOK AND MIGHT EDUCATE THEMSELVES.
BWALL

when you talk about cheating the judge can .. but the biggest chearters are the other 4 guys .n the cast with you ..wont claim thier dogs .wont agree when your dog jumps a rabbit. stupid little things like that....if the handlers. would be straight. up .and not two faced,would make ajudges job easery...and these same guys call you friend..id rather walk away with alose...than two have a win with shame..freak of nature

After running mutts of one kind or another for about 50 years, it is my experence that for every time I have thaught I got cheated out of one, there was another time that I was given one. So it all works out in the end.
Just have to remember the gifts when I think I got cheated is all.

tom

I get cheated all the time. Huh, maybe I just need different dogs. Too funny.