The American Beagler Forum

Pine Mt Beagles made a post that clicked in something Ive pondered.

When trialing, What ONE option do you think gives the most edge to a hound? Ill give my thoughts at a latter date. This will build into something to ponder when it comes to selecting Breeding options.



Size didnt show up it was one of my options. Trying to get Stony to add it.

all three......take away any one of those and it wont happen. a hound must be able to get the job done, must be in good enough shape to hunt the day.

Got it added for you Will. I will just add it to your tab! LOL!

As for your poll I think a dog has to have some of each plus a few others but I also think if a dog isnt in condition it doesnt make any difference how much of all the others it has so I guess I will have to pick Conditioning.

Ability means everything to me.... You've either seen it or heard of it.... "MAN I HAVEN'T HAD THIS DOG OUT IN AGES" If he is good it will surely show....

Size to me is a personal preferrence just as color... I've seen plenty of fast big and little dogs....

Conditioning and Nutrition are factors that can be inhanced with time and effort....

Ability is the fabric that makes the dog.... How does the dog handle a rough pack, how is the dog affected by snow or heat, how does a dog work a check, and so on...... I also believe you can't judge a dog's Ability in any one setting. Personally, i'm breeding for averages, for an example, the average northway bred hound is known for its crazy hunt and production.... well i'm breeding towards northway hounds looking to produce hard hunt as an average (majority of the time) Ability.

With all this said, in a trial situatio sometimes the dog that is ran up better wins over a better dog..... Extra conditional can make a bad dog look better.

-Jack

Also, some would argue that CONFIRMATION is a factor that should be added to the list...

If you try evaluating each of the original 3 choices(I voted for ability), there would be only one factor that you could not change. An able hound can be conditioned using proper techniques and nutrition. No matter how well fed or how well conditioned a hound is, if it has no ability, it will not function properly in the field. Size really has very minimal effect on performance and conformation, while extremely important, really only affects the duration of the performance (kind of goes hand-in-hand with conditioning). A top quality show dog does not necessarily have the instincts to run rabbits, but an able hunting hound, with proper confirmation and intelligence, can do very well in the show ring.

If I were evaluating the hound to buy it, I would say ability.

If I were evaluating the hound as competition for mine, it better be in condition, because if it aint in shape it will definately show against mine.

I think ability is the one I'd look for. The reason is because if the hound has the ability, I can get it in condition, and give it the nutrition it needs. But if it dosen't have the ability the rest doesn't matter. I think confirmation should be a big factor too. The reason is a well designed well oiled machine will last alot longer than a descent well oiled machine. To me the size doesn't matter but he size of the heart does. Also I don't think you can really evaluate a hound at just one trial. Because as we all know that if your hound will screw up, it's that one time that somebody is evaluating him. They all have there good days and then some bad ones always have great days......

Good question....

Chaffin Crank

This is my opinion , I believe conditioning plays a large part as well as ability. Something i have noticed is take my abby for example ability is in the breeding some dogs got it some dont . I also believe when i have the time to properly solo my hounds when trying to get the deal done , there ability shows up . Example when junies daddy was in his prime so was I lol. I now see junie run much like chester I believe its in the blood . Seldom few have seen Iron eagle run but i have to believe my abby bitch is much like her father , I see her mom but her style of running has to be eagle . Not to ramble on but my thought is this "The right dog run up put in rabbits for hours on in , will show up in the end to be the victor." Conditioning has got to be done without it ability runs out of juice . Proper food is also high on my list .

Will... All of the attributes you named plays a roll. However you forgot the most important one of all.


BRAINS

Without something between their eyes all the rest means jack squat.

Ability

Any houndsman should be able to see past out of shape and see Ability if its there.

You can alway get an out of shape dog in shape.

In the ARHA Little Pack trials the most a dog has to run is one hour and then a break.

I have never been on a cast where the dogs ran the whole hour. There is usually some dufus that has a dog in the cast that causes the dogs to be caught and recast several times and more time is spent catching dogs and moving to a new location and hunting for a rabbit than running.

Any dog I have, even if it was out of shape, can do that easily.

HEY" WILL" GREAT POST
I VOTED FOR ABILITY..BECAUSE IT COMES FROM BREEDING,,YOU GUY'S HEARD THE OLD SAYING"" YOU CAN'T MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOW'S EAR""BUT I HAVE TO ADD ONE ONE MORE THING,,IT REALLY DOESN'T SHOW UP AT TRIALS.BECAUSE OF THE TIME LIMITS IS GAMENESS GRIT,,HEART ,OR WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.SOME WILL SAY THAT IT COMES FROM CONDITIONING BUT YOU CAN'T CONDITION A DOG OR TRAIN A DOG THAT DOES NOT HAVE HEART,,,,,,,ALL REPLYS HAVE REALLY GOOD POINTS KEEP IT COMMING,,,LOOKING FORWARD TO READING MORE,,,,,,,,,,,

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

I see it all the time at the trials. A dog really looks awsome in the first series but later in the day he runs out of gas and aint the same dog he was that morning.

I believe conditioning will make a good dog a better dog and a great dog unbeatable.

The question was "at a trial"..........At a trial a good conditioned decent dog will beat a great out of shape dog any day of the week cause he can go the distance.

I'd say that conditioning can certainly help an average hound beat a better one on a given day, but I thought I'd finished FTCH Branko's Extra Trim in October, so I left her in the kennel from then till April (6 months), and fed her only low protien (cheap) feed, since she wasn't running at all. Branko called me in April to say that the CKC had told him Trim still needed (1) one point to finish. I explained that she hadn't been run at all in 6 months, but that I was taking her dam, Branko's Sassy Sally to a LPH trial in Quebec that weekend since I needed to get a few points on her to finish her. I took them both, and they had a pounding, driving run with no losses that we heard. When they ordered the pack up, I was surprised Trim still looked fresh. I figured she'd been "coasting" and hadn't done enough work to tire her. They announced the results, and Trim won the trial and Sally got second. It threw every idea I'd ever had about conditioning out the window.

all of the above but dont forget the luck factor

Alabama John wrote:Ability

Any houndsman should be able to see past out of shape and see Ability if its there.

You can alway get an out of shape dog in shape.

In the ARHA Little Pack trials the most a dog has to run is one hour and then a break.

I have never been on a cast where the dogs ran the whole hour. There is usually some dufus that has a dog in the cast that causes the dogs to be caught and recast several times and more time is spent catching dogs and moving to a new location and hunting for a rabbit than running.

Any dog I have, even if it was out of shape, can do that easily.

My thought exactly AJ.
I don't believe I own a dog that if left in the pen for six months they could still compete in any trial I have seen except Large Pack on Hare. LPH trials demand that the dog be in gret condition.