Size & speed

[burbba]

I doubt, and would bet big money that NOBODY owns a dog that weather and scent conditions dont AFFECT their running. That was never stated or argued in this post. Some dogs are better equiped for poor conditions.

I'd be willing to bet any dog we have would have a hard time running a hare in several feet of snow. they'd move him and you could probably get a shot, but i'm very confident it wouldnt be too fun, and you wouldnt kill very many due to time constraints. Same goes with hare hounds in 90 degree heat with no rain in a month.

Larry, I completely agree that many people "trump" their stud dogs in the magazines. Why wouldnt they? They are competing for breedings, and trying to earn back some of the money they spent for the dog or the trials they attended. only way to know is watch the dog run.

[BJK]

I used to run a med. speed hound, mostly 13" class. Now I run fairly quick dogs but both 13" & 15"ers, more the latter. I'm thinking of keeping most of what I have and adding some med. speed hounds, enough for a couple packs.

Does anyone here own 2 diff. speed packs? I'm not talking about running them together, just having enough for a couple fast packs and a coupld med. speed packs.

Steve,

I have a buddy that had a medium speed pack and after splitting hunts with me for a couple of days during the season, he decided to get a faster paced pack. Well, it didn't work. He didn't have enough time to run two different packs. As they say sometimes , he was robbing Peter to pay Paul. His med speed pack suffered from lack of running time and his fast pack never developed into what he hoped they would be due to not committing the time necessary to do so.

When I last spoke to Randy, he was hunting 5 and 6 days a week. Anyone that goes at it like he does needs two maybe three packs of dogs. Believe me he's not playing, he's very serious about his gun hunting. I won't mention the numbers .

The one thing that I learned over the years through trial and error but mostly from the old guys, is, a pack is like a basketball team. You have guards, forwards and the center. Once Jordan learned this he went from being a great player to a championship winner. My mentors in rabbit hunting composed thier packs in what they called the pyramid plan. At the point position was the fast driving front dog. At the bottom or base of the pyramid were 3 or 4 line running, back to point of loss, slot up type hounds. In the middle of the pyramid were dogs that had traits of the front runner but not as fast and traits of the base hounds but quicker. Their packs ran like an well oiled machine. They all knew their place. Understand, the guys that ran packs under the pyramid plan were gun hunters not trialers. They hunted and killed for the pot. Rarely did they lose a rabbit. On a check they had all the bases covered along with the infield and outfield. If the rabbit didn't go to hole, he came to the gun or was flat out caught. I introduced Rudy to an ARHA LP trial at South Eastern VA Beagle Club years ago. He won his first and last trial. He smiled at the trophy and said, "I like rabbit huntin' better."

[burbba]

Good post BJK. And if your talking about randy p, that man hunts HARD! I know his numbers and he harvested more this past year than MOST do in several years. I've been with him several times and everytime i go home as tired as the dogs!

[coolbrze]

Matt, I'd def. like to come down someday and run some bunnies w/ you. Now that trialing season is winding down, I'll have a "little" more time on my hands. No need for you to pay my gas or buy me lunch I just like to see some good running Thanks for the kudos on Bo.

I agree w/ you guys, there are dogs who just plain have better noses than most. If you're lucky, that dog also has the brains not to bark on a colder trail. I've got a dog w/ a heck of a nose, but she's got a looser mouth than I'd like, but she's not going anywhere.

We saw this in action BIGTIME in January when we were hunting a xmas tree farm in Blacksburg when I took 4 of my best dogs. Long story short, she was the one to keep the race going when the rabbit was in the xmas trees. As soon as it hit the woods, the other dogs were back on it, but it was shocking to see how well she geared down and moved it. The other dogs would pick it up here and there, but there was no doubt in any of our minds, Spice kept them moving.

[coolbrze]

Nate, that's the other thing I've been thinking about. I run 3-4 times/week, but if I have a med. speed pack, I can't swap dogs around from a med. speed pack to my 2 faster packs. That means ground time will suffer for some dogs. As I've come to think about it, it wouldn't be a problem unless I don't have the time, which I don't. I'm blessed to be able to run as much as I do. Not to mention, I'll need to add more kennels and would rather be running dogs than building kennels right now

KEEP 'EM RUNNING BOYS!

[main event`s beagles]

you gotta love those stud dog ads

[burbba]

Sounds good steve. Right now I am in "move" stage. My house is on the market, and we close on a purchase in a few weeks. The weekends are spent packing and running around. Once all that gets settled down we'll get together and run some dogs.

[Larry G]

BJK, FWIW I agree completely. Now how about your thoughts on this... if you could only have one pack to run, would they be fast, slow or med speed, and why?

Why do you think a lot of beaglers want a pack of 10 or so that line up like ducks behind their mama?

Ever seen those kind that are so good they burn a rabbit's little hind end up every time out? Why of course you have, and you own them too, right? Just like the US mail ain't no stopping em... at least on the internet or in magazines

[Rabbithoundjb]

I like a 15" class dog, 7/8 speed and I don't have time for another pack, sometimes I feel guilty when I'm not running them.
I agree with Nate that a good pack has various elements and based on abilities and conditions those positions in the pack will change. Some days that faster dog won't have front, that's why it's called a pack
I do agree with Larry that if you run enough you will go a day once in a while when no dog will circle the rabbit. In all of my years of running I have been able to run most of the time but I can recall a day here and there when my dogs jump the rabbit out of the bed and open maybe a half dozen times and it was just like he climbed a tree.

[jeff]

IM confused Larry G but is this about SPEED, SIZE, or NOSE? I know i've been thru my share of dogs(all sizes, colors and shapes) and spent more money than my wife will ever know. but the bottom line is I wont feed a dog that cant hunt in just about any condition. whether they're fast or slow or somewhere inbetween is a whole OTHER issue. im talking about NOSE and GRIT. there are only a certain amount of days i can hunt and im not staying home just because its snowing, or raining, or dry and hot. yes conditions can play a big part, but it aint a deal breaker! i'd rather watch my dogs walk a rabbit in poor conditions...... than see a bunch of hot nosed dogs stand around and lick eachothers @#@$#$. you might say its boring, or not fast paced enough...but you cant say it doesnt happen.

BJK, good post. I agree assembling a pack is no different than assembling a basketball team. each dog must have a purpose and a role. and work in harmony. randy p. has mastered this technique!~

[Larry G]

IM confused Larry G but is this about SPEED, SIZE, or NOSE? I know i've been thru my share of dogs(all sizes, colors and shapes) and spent more money than my wife will ever know. but the bottom line is I wont feed a dog that cant hunt in just about any condition. whether they're fast or slow or somewhere inbetween is a whole OTHER issue. im talking about NOSE and GRIT. there are only a certain amount of days i can hunt and im not staying home just because its snowing, or raining, or dry and hot. yes conditions can play a big part, but it aint a deal breaker! i'd rather watch my dogs walk a rabbit in poor conditions...... than see a bunch of hot nosed dogs stand around and lick eachothers @#@$#$. you might say its boring, or not fast paced enough...but you cant say it doesnt happen.

BJK, good post. I agree assembling a pack is no different than assembling a basketball team. each dog must have a purpose and a role. and work in harmony. randy p. has mastered this technique!~

What bores hell out of me might thrill others out of their mind, we are all different. What the post is about is the dog that so good, weather don't matter... yeah, all my friends got em. And their pickup gets 40 MPG, and they always catch a limit of big bass, and their wife knows how to cook venison so it tastes better than a T bone, and they used to beat ever body in town playin pool for big money. And if all them field trials warn't crooked, old Jake there would be a champion 10 times over.

[BJK]

BJK, FWIW I agree completely. Now how about your thoughts on this... if you could only have one pack to run, would they be fast, slow or med speed, and why?

Why do you think a lot of beaglers want a pack of 10 or so that line up like ducks behind their mama?

Larry,

I only own and hunt one pack. I own approximately 11 gun dogs in addition I have one stud male and one brood bitch. Not to mention a couple of 8 month old green started pups. I like to push a rabbit, I like my dogs fast, always have and always will.

I prefer a fast pack regardless of the conditions. The key to a dog being able to run on bad scenting days, is to run it on bad scenting days. A dog can't learn to adjust if you don't put it out there to adjust. No, it won't be pretty but you must have patience. Any dog can look good and run a good track on a good scenting day. But one of the best test to find out what you have, is to run when scenting is poor or nonexistent.

I remember a hunt a few years ago in Saluda, VA. A friend invited me down and told me to bring my pack, his needed a break. We jumped 18 rabbits that day and only got 9. I was very disappointed with our results. The dogs would jump and run some of the rabbits 20 feet and that was it. I jumped rabbits, called the dogs and they would look up at me as if I were lying. They couldn't smell. The rabbits we killed were bumped around back to the gun. No, we don't jump shoot. The pack didn't run the way I'm accustomed to but they adjusted.

On one particular chase they ran as if they were running a baby rabbit. Hit and miss, hit and miss. This lasted for over an hour but they wouldn't give up. Finally, I manuvered into the right position and killed it. When I picked it up, it was stinking with musk and covered with fleas. A huge buck cottontail. I never smelled a rabbit that stank with such a strong odor of musk. The smell was left all over my hands. The dogs should have pounded him but, the scenting was poor, they adjusted and never quit. Like I said before, I was disappointed with 9 out of 18 rabbits. I knew my dogs were better than this. However, Mike reminded me that the dogs couldn't smell and they did very good for the conditions. He said "most guys would have quit at lunch time and their dogs too." I felt better but still.......

[burbba]

I prefer med/upper med speed dogs. I prefer line control over speed for my day to day running. I dont want a walkie talkie dog though. I like for the dogs to run in a TIGHT bunch, not spread out over a distance. I want them to run like a pack of ants, if one over steps the line, the next in line should pick it up without a break. Yes, checks happen, but when scent is good they are very few, and typically very short. we had days last year we had 10 dogs running that you could throw a blanket over them all in 1 throw. Thats the way I like it.

I have hunted with faster dogs, and do enjoy it. Hell, I just like watching talented dogs run. Fast, slow, big, small, doesnt matter. if i could get my wifes basset hound to run a rabbit, i'd enjoy watching him run!

[BJK]

Bubba I'm like you, I love to watch talented dogs run. A good dog is a good dog regardless of the speed.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Nate is exactly right , bad scenting days are only that .You gotta go. My worst problem has been ice. I dont get enuff time or ice to train on it.
I can condition for heat ,sleet or rain.I use to run year around my potlickers are lucky now .I cant.Anyway i feel people think dogs dont have enuff nose but only fair weather run.Dogs gotta be run to develop
keen noses. I like em fast . I also dont like to see em out run there nose.
Fast is my choice. No swinging just hard track running fast.Jmho