Puppies, Breeding and MONEY????

[Duke]

I want to ask this question. Why would you spend $50.00 on and unknown commodity(puppie) when you could buy some of the best bred hounds out there for $250.00? And why would you breed unknown or average hounds in this day when there are just too many poor beagles already out there?

Before you jump on me it is just a question I have asked to other beaglesrs that I run with, and I AM NOT A BREEDER, I have only bred a single female in my kennel once in the last couple of years. I made sure I kept a couple and knew where the rest went so I could see how the breeding turned out.

There are just too many fantastic Gyps and Studs out there to settle for some of the breeding that is going on. Is it really worth saving $100.00 to buy an unknown quantity to many of you, or is it important to make the $500.00 on an average litter at best on average dogs(that is if you can sell them at all).

I just think we are doing the breed a disservice by all the many poor breedings that are taking place. Puppies out of the very best go very cheap, why would anyone settle for less, just curious. It is something that boggles my mind. Anyone can buy a pup out of a Grand Champ, World Champ, IFC ect... for only a few bucks more than the many, many unknown breedings out there.

Now before I get attacked by the guys who go, HEY THE VERY BEST HOUND I HAVE SEEN WAS THIS GRADE HOUND, OLE BLUE, I concede there are some very fine hunting dogs out there that never trial, but what are they being bred to? And are they being bred to carry on that dogs genes?????? Not often my friends. Its usually to put some money in someones pocket and not much at that.

So the question is WHY so many breedings, why do you buy a beagle, what are you trying to accomplish and does the cost mean that much? I post this for all of us to discuss and consider, not to point fingers. I think we all need to become more responsible in the breeding of rabbit dogs, JMHO. What do you think?

[mike crabtree]

I think we live in America, and if it isnt illegal, then buy,sell, breed what you want.
bettering the breed is horse crap. Put 10 people together with 10 different good dogs in there own way they wont half of them like the same dog.

Who decides what is better for the breed? Gunhunters Down South who like lower Medium speed dogs? Hare runners up north who dont mind quite a bit of cold trailing? Or the guy who likes them so tight mouthed they cant run a rabbit when scenting is tuff?The show breeder who only worries about a big show?

Breed or Buy what you like, and dont sweat what everybody else is doing.

[jcbeagler]

[Duke]

Just a question friends, I'm not picking at scabs, just looking for good honest discussion.

Freedom of speech is also a right, which would make asking a question on a thread appropriate, Oh, and burning the flag is legal, but that does not make it right.

[DedRabbits]

So if a couple of hunting buddies get together and breed their 2 beagles to add to their pack it's wrong? Buying a pup from a guy just because he has the next big thing is right? I don't think so.

[danny vansickle]

i agree with mike,but also duke,not saying they dissagree with each other.

but answer me this,does a dog have to hold a fc tiltle to reproduce nicely?

when i bought my iron eagle dog bandit,his former owner had bred him to one of his females,bandit had never placed in a trial or anything,heck,never been in one for that matter.the pups where just born when i got him,the female,another untrialed dog out of chimney hill driver and a northway female,she weaned three males,they started themselves in his small backyard pen and where running and getting checks on each other like a lil ft cast at 4 months,a few guys heard how well they where doin watched them run and tried to buy one but larry would not part with them,finally after begging him he sold me one,and i had to pay for him too,some guys have seen these dogs go,i am talkin people that have won world hunts,nationals,ect.what i mean is people that obviously know what a trial dog is.they have said name your price,i amm talking super hard hunters,fast as lightning,and super clean,and rabbit smart.

to this day,bandit has never won a hunt,and the female has never been in one,i did the same breeding again and the pups where gone the day they where weaned,as a matter of fact i had to buy one back when mine i kept got it's head caught in a fence and hung himself.

my point is this,two non fc dogs,sure bandit has done a lil not much though in lp,but they threw top notch dogs,i sold the pups for 100 bucks and now their owners won't price them,heck,bandit may or may not ever throw a fc or anything but the cross worked,would i be wrong for doing it again?

[HALLELUJAH KENNELS]

As one who has spent a pretty good chunk of change on pups from well known breedings. Pups are a gamble even when out of big names. The reason I would and do put my old backyard female to my old backyard male is because I ran out of money buying worthless pups from some big name studs. Most of the big name hounds get studed out so much that the odds are some good pups will hit the ground. But look at the Percent of pups that make Champions. In UKC hunting dogs the top of the all time breeders list can't make a third of their pups Champions. So 2/3 are at best not good enough to win in trials. And I know that all pups are not put in trials but my point is Great dogs are few and far between. Poor men have poor ways. We do what it takes. Breeding the best local dogs to the best local dogs is sometimes better than chasing some big ad across the country to find out 6-12 months later that your pup is a dud.

[beagle crazy]

We have been involved in breeding only twice. The first time, us newbies got suckered in by the "elite" who were trying to help us out. The second time we bred within our own kennel. We bred our ARHA LP RCh (who we bought to get us into trialing) to a gyp who runs a good solid line, isn't mouthy, doesn't run trash, isn't too fast or too slow. She was never run in field trials because we didn't know about them, but she is still a darn fine rabbit dog. Are you trying to say that these puppies won't be any good because they didn't come from World Champions? Who's to say that given the time, money, and resources our gyp couldn't be a world champion?
You are discouraging to any newbies. Besides, if it came down to all dogs from the same stock, the only point to trialing would be to see who had the most time and money. That's sad.

[jfields]

I have 2 dogs that I breed . Both dogs have open pedigrees or as you call it ( unknown ). I would not be ashamed at all to hunt theese two dogs with anything around. ( actually I pretty much have ) why would I pay $250.00 for a dog just because his owner has traveled all over the country putting him in trials just to get some papers , when the pup may turn out a dud anyway. ( See that works two ways ). Im not attacking anyone either. But just because I dont run trials and get a stack of papers with my dogs doesnt make me an irresponmsible breeder. I breed good dogs and sale pups for $50.00 each. and so do a lot of other good dog owners.

[jfields]

I have 2 dogs that I breed . Both dogs have open pedigrees or as you call it ( unknown ). I would not be ashamed at all to hunt theese two dogs with anything around. ( actually I pretty much have ) why would I pay $250.00 for a dog just because his owner has traveled all over the country putting him in trials just to get some papers , when the pup may turn out a dud anyway. ( See that works two ways ). Im not attacking anyone either. But just because I dont run trials and get a stack of papers with my dogs doesnt make me an irresponmsible breeder. I breed good dogs and sale pups for $50.00 each. and so do a lot of other good dog owners.

[beagler111]

I kind of understand what you are saying but there are lots of wonderful dogs that have never been in a hunt.
Also I would like to find some of those pups that are from world ch males and and world ch females for a $100.00 even $250.00. They may not turn out but they cost a lot more.

[ycedy]

I will say this most of my friends hunt then trial. We run hard hitting run to catch type dog. I have some of the best in Patch breeding around. My goal is to breed what I like. I dont blieve you can make money selling dogs. I have given away better dogs than I have seen sold for $300 plus. I'm not saying I have anything better than anyone but they suite me. I'm a gun hunter first. I may breed on every few years and now I will sell a pup to try and recoop some feed and shot money. I keep enough dogs to hunt with. I like this sport because I have met some fine people. I alway will give a invite to anyone who wants to run and talk dogs. I run and hunt with some of the best. We talk crap about each others dogs (all in fun) non of us will get mad. I will say this a man will run what suits him. You have made a good point. My goal is to have fun.
Just My TWO CENTS
Cedric

[ycedy]

I will say this most of my friends hunt then trial. We run hard hitting run to catch type dog. I have some of the best in Patch breeding around. My goal is to breed what I like. I dont blieve you can make money selling dogs. I have given away better dogs than I have seen sold for $300 plus. I'm not saying I have anything better than anyone but they suite me. I'm a gun hunter first. I may breed on every few years and now I will sell a pup to try and recoop some feed and shot money. I keep enough dogs to hunt with. I like this sport because I have met some fine people. I alway will give a invite to anyone who wants to run and talk dogs. I run and hunt with some of the best. We talk crap about each others dogs (all in fun) non of us will get mad. I will say this a man will run what suits him. You have made a good point. My goal is to have fun.
Just My TWO CENTS
Cedric

[beaglehandler]

I bred my two Smokes Creek females to two different Turbo males this spring. First litters in this kennel for 4 years. I have a couple of dogs that just don't get it so now I am looking for new homes for both these dogs. Both were spayed at my expense, and both will leave here free of charge going to good homes as pets. I bred to replace these two dogs and to better my kennel and also a few guys here in the local area wanted pups out both my females. I did alot of research and spent alot of time looking into what was out there that would cross well with my females. With my time, and cost into these two breedings I need to recover some of my money but not make a profit. What I don't like about what I see going on is the guys who have 6 or 7 litters planned. I read one post sometime back where a guy had bred 6 or 7 of his females and had them listed. Of the two litters I have going at this time, only one pup is going more than 100 miles from here. I can keep up on all the pups and see how they develop. I know the biggest part of them are going to guys like me that don't hunt or field trial but just like to go out and run dogs. Even if every dog that is going to be field trialed becomes a field champion, wins world hunts or whatever my two females will never be bred again. I agree with Danny that a dog doesn't need to be a FC or whatever to make it a good or great dog. And why are there so many good dogs on here and other boards for sale ? Wasn't that posted a while back also ? Some of the replies " just need room", going thru divorce", to fast for my pack. to slow for my pack. If a dog don't make it why sale it ? Have it fixed and give it away as a pet and don't burn someone else. Anyone every want to run dogs in central Indiana please feel free to contact me. Have alot good places to run with plenty of rabbits. Two rules, no alcohol or drugs and no trespassing.

[wvduece]

i have 7 beagles n all but 2are grade dogs i run often with dogs out of the big grch dogs n i would take very few of them home if they were gave to me for nothing you all know or you should by now if you have fooled with rabbit dogs for any length of time A SORRY DOG WILL EAT AS MUCH IF NOT MORE THAN A GOOD ONE if i make a outcross or buy a pup off these top knotch hounds with fancy titles in front of their names wow what a gamble i breed mostly my own dogs that dont have not titles in front of their names n my dogs are way above average rabbit dogs with speed of about a 8 n can run with any dog ya put them down with no brag just fact jb