A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
eddywilliams wrote:ringo i think we need to run with some of these dogs that never have losses and only for 15 sec or less ,yogi was an arha style dog check dog supreme he rarely gets out checked
eddy,
I need to see some of these perfect dogs. In all my years of running I have yet to see a dog(s) that never had a check. Agreed, I don't want dogs with continuous breakdowns but I am realistic and honest enough to realize that a checkfree (15 seconds that is) is not going to happen all that often where I run. It is too thick. If you run in a grass fields maybe there will be many check free runs. I run in rough deer country that you can not even walk through this time of year with downfalls and OAK tops left over from timbering with briars and vegetation, etc. to the point that it looks like the Amazon. Maybe geography plays a role. I use to field trial in the early 90's and seen a lot of excellent dogs run and had a female (Birch Lake Texas T bred) that placed in every trial I entered her in (3) but I never witnessed a checkfree run. In fact, I don't think I have witnessed a checkfree run in all my years of beagling unless I shot the rabbit on the first or second circle. Any run that went on for over 30 minutes usually had its share of 15 second checks. I guess I will have to attend some ARHA trials and witness this for myself.
How many dogs are packed up during an ARHA trial?
No more than 5 dogs per Cast. You might go to a ARHA trail and only have a total of 15 open dogs at the trail, so there will only be 3 Cast of opens to go out for the first hour. Hope this helps.
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Everyone must be getting bored with the hot summer of not much good beagle running weather. Why fight about which check is a check. If you want to trial get the rules for each format and read them find the one that best fit your hounds or buy hounds that fit the rules you like best and run that format. If you want to hunt then run the dogs that you like. Why cut down other peoples dogs or the format that they run.
Brooksidebeagler wrote:Everyone must be getting bored with the hot summer of not much good beagle running weather. Why fight about which check is a check. If you want to trial get the rules for each format and read them find the one that best fit your hounds or buy hounds that fit the rules you like best and run that format. If you want to hunt then run the dogs that you like. Why cut down other peoples dogs or the format that they run.
I don't think anyone here has cut down anyone or anything.
I like an agressive dog and like Danny said I want the dog to get right back on the rabbit but thats not always going to happen. Scenting conditions, time of the year, dryness, folage, small rabbits etc. will effect running. Not to offend anyone but if your not having any checks or losses, your not running the rabbit your walking him. JMO
And a check to me is when the track is lost or not being moved forward.
I think folks are confusing the issues here. The first issue is what is a check? ARHA 15 second or longer breakdown, UKC 1 minute or longer breakdown, AKC any breakdown. In my opinion any breakdown is a check, but each format has formulated a set of rules on how they will judge what a check actually is. With that being said you want your pack to have as few checks as possible. I have seen plenty of dogs on good scenting days run with minimal checks and very few if any 15 second checks. This is a rarity but it does happen. Any time that my dogs breakdown I call it a check I like to keep the checks to a minimum but they still happen. As for most trials and folks that attend them there are plenty of checks at the trials, except in Indiana if you get a good pack of Grands or Champions on a long running rabbit there may be very few if any 15 second checks.
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in bandits cast at the runnoff,they ran the first rabbit,27 minutes,had one check.2nd rabbit 20 minutes,again 1 check,and the last rabbit ran the time out,only one check.
total of 60 minutes running,only 3 scorable checks,and they where all less than 20 seconds.
but you have to realize,it was a 4 dog cast consisting of 4 of the top ten hounds in lp open class for 06.when you have that much talent in a cst,you have running like that.only one dog in the cast was a "swinger",the other three had good line control,they just laid n the rabbit and pounded,that is the way dogs should run rabbits.
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I'm curious if the dogs that have a lot of 15 second checks and longer after a rabbit have the same amount of checks if they are running a deer, fox, coyote, or house cat? Before they were broke of course.
Surely not, but if so, then your problem is your dogs, not location!
eddywilliams wrote:ringo i think we need to run with some of these dogs that never have losses and only for 15 sec or less ,yogi was an arha style dog check dog supreme he rarely gets out checked
eddy,
I need to see some of these perfect dogs. In all my years of running I have yet to see a dog(s) that never had a check. Agreed, I don't want dogs with continuous breakdowns but I am realistic and honest enough to realize that a checkfree (15 seconds that is) is not going to happen all that often where I run. It is too thick. If you run in a grass fields maybe there will be many check free runs. I run in rough deer country that you can not even walk through this time of year with downfalls and OAK tops left over from timbering with briars and vegetation, etc. to the point that it looks like the Amazon. Maybe geography plays a role. I use to field trial in the early 90's and seen a lot of excellent dogs run and had a female (Birch Lake Texas T bred) that placed in every trial I entered her in (3) but I never witnessed a checkfree run. In fact, I don't think I have witnessed a checkfree run in all my years of beagling unless I shot the rabbit on the first or second circle. Any run that went on for over 30 minutes usually had its share of 15 second checks. I guess I will have to attend some ARHA trials and witness this for myself.
How many dogs are packed up during an ARHA trial?
I'd like to see that too.........All dogs have break down into checks.......but I haven't seen a whole bunch of different dogs run....So I don't know what's out there. But it's kind of hard to believe....I have to see it to believe it.
joe,
I doubt if you ever see a dog that runs without checks 365 days a year. Yes, there will be runs on good scent days that this happens and runs on bad scent days that will cause checks. If you ever find that "special dog" that runs 30 minutes or more without so much as a 15 second check 365 days a year make sure you breed your best bitch to him and keep all the pups.
danny vansickle wrote:in bandits cast at the runnoff,they ran the first rabbit,27 minutes,had one check.2nd rabbit 20 minutes,again 1 check,and the last rabbit ran the time out,only one check.
total of 60 minutes running,only 3 scorable checks,and they where all less than 20 seconds.
but you have to realize,it was a 4 dog cast consisting of 4 of the top ten hounds in lp open class for 06.when you have that much talent in a cst,you have running like that.only one dog in the cast was a "swinger",the other three had good line control,they just laid n the rabbit and pounded,that is the way dogs should run rabbits.
WOW now that would be something to see.....I would like to see something like that. Sounds pretty cool.
My dogs are occasional breaking down into what I like to call Mini checks. I have video of my dogs working checks. Tell me if you think that you would call this a check or must we wait a little longer then call it a check. I think it's a check.
Look real close you can see the rabbit run by in the very begining of video
Rabbit did a 90 degree turn on them. It ran down the road some then went inn.......I call this a check. But it is less than 15 seconds What do you guys think........Would you consider this a check or not.
That is what I call a check, and even one much shorter. When the dogs are looking for the track instead of following it, its a check to me, doesn't matter how long.
I don't think yours shown was 15 seconds so in a ARHA LP trial your dogs are running solid and check free!!!
I also thought that they are in a check.....But by ARHA rules they would see it as solid running......then I could claim.......Hey my dogs ran that rabbit for an hour and never had a check.......AHHH who really knows....
They can bring rabbits around to my gun with no problems that's all that matter in my book
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15 second loss is a check, I'd even call it a semi-hard check. We run very controlled dogs compared to most LP style dogs and 15 seconds is a long time. we have some longer than that, and many shorter than that... but if EVERY dog in the pack stops barking, thats a check. (assuming you dont have a bunch of babblers out there).
I've only been to 1 LP trial, and was a spectator, but the dog that manhandled the rest in the opens won simply on checks. We ran the dogs for an hour and there were 12+ and checks scored and this dog got 10. To me, thats way too many. I might add it was lightly raining and about 55 degrees so scent was excellent. Good for the check dog, bad for the jump dog and track dog. Watched the champions final cast, there was one dog who didnt lose the track, and didnt cause checks... guess who was the lowest scoring hound... Yep, bad for him, but a heck of a gun dog.
There are faults in every format. To me a check is a loss, and frequency being factors of competitors and environment. 15 seconds is fair. 15 seconds of no progress is a loss.
Good morning,
Maybe along with rewarding for a recovery there should just be a minus for the dog creating the check. This way if dog A makes the check and recovers its own check it is a wash. If dog A makes a check and dog B recovers it penilizes dog A.
