A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
tdog wrote:Good morning,
Maybe along with rewarding for a recovery there should just be a minus for the dog creating the check. This way if dog A makes the check and recovers its own check it is a wash. If dog A makes a check and dog B recovers it penilizes dog A.
I don't trial, but I think this is a great idea. I wonder how much it would change the style of hounds some guys trial with.
Bear's Woodsedge Daisy
Aspen Hollow Daisey II
Smoke Hollow Crankin' Cooter
and Just Call Me Suzy
Bet there are some mouthy dogs out there to keep the checks down. My dogs are tight mouthed so they wouldn't do good in ARHA. They bark only on hot tracks. If the rabbit back tracks they shut up and work it out.
If a rabbit backtracks and the dogs follow the scent is this considered a check since it is not really forward progress?.
As others have said.
ARHA LP definition considers 15 seconds a check.
Here is ther ARHA LP definition of a check:
E. Checks
1. Definition: A check occurs when it is evident that the hounds in pursuit of the rabbit have lost it for 15 seconds, or more. The hounds do not have to shut up barking for 15 seconds in the check area for it to be considered a check, only lose it to where they cannot make forward progress with the rabbit for 15 seconds. A hound must claim the check by giving mouth and making forward progress.
jonnyringo wrote:Bet there are some mouthy dogs out there to keep the checks down. My dogs are tight mouthed so they wouldn't do good in ARHA. They bark only on hot tracks. If the rabbit back tracks they shut up and work it out.
If a rabbit backtracks and the dogs follow the scent is this considered a check since it is not really forward progress?.
I prefer a dog that is a little tight.
A mouthy dog will pull lots of minuses in ARHA LP unless you are running in places that there are rabbits every where.
I want it to open and claim a check hard, but I do not like extra mouth.
ARHA doesnt promote any mouthier dogs than UKC or PKC. You dont get a check for barking . A judge has to be there and see the dog recover the track and move out with it.
jonnyringo wrote:Bet there are some mouthy dogs out there to keep the checks down. My dogs are tight mouthed so they wouldn't do good in ARHA. They bark only on hot tracks. If the rabbit back tracks they shut up and work it out.
If a rabbit backtracks and the dogs follow the scent is this considered a check since it is not really forward progress?.
Sounds like you seen a lot of backtracking rabbits ... If a rabbit backtracks on ARHA LP hounds it may just get eaten .
jonnyringo wrote:Bet there are some mouthy dogs out there to keep the checks down. My dogs are tight mouthed so they wouldn't do good in ARHA. They bark only on hot tracks. If the rabbit back tracks they shut up and work it out.
If a rabbit backtracks and the dogs follow the scent is this considered a check since it is not really forward progress?.
Sounds like you seen a lot of backtracking rabbits ... If a rabbit backtracks on ARHA LP hounds it may just get eaten .
Buddy
I have seen rabbits do just about anythng and everything to elude a pack of beagles in hot persuit.
I'll have to go to some ARHA trials in my area and witness these wonder dogs you speak of. Been to the AKC and UKC trails in the early 90's and seen some great ones. None near as good as the ones described in this thread.
Thanks to all who replied with constructive feedback to the question I posed concerning checks. After some consideration and actually putting a brace of beagles from my kennel on the clock last evening I have reconsidered my thoughts on checks. They ran a young rabbit pretty much checkfree for roughly 20 minutes before I had to beep them off due to running on my neighbors property. They did experience one break down of around 25 seconds and I considered it to be a check. 15 seconds does seem longer when actually putting the dogs on the clock. Agreed, I wouldn't want too many of them in a run. We actually got about a quarter in of rain this week so it helped the running I am sure.
jonnyringo wrote:
I have seen rabbits do just about anythng and everything to elude a pack of beagles in hot persuit.
I'll have to go to some ARHA trials in my area and witness these wonder dogs you speak of. Been to the AKC and UKC trails in the early 90's and seen some great ones. None near as good as the ones described in this thread.
That's the very thing to do Johnny Go to some of these trials before you knock the hide off them . You never know your hounds might do great in them . I've heard of some really tight mouth hounds being GRCH so you might have just what it takes to win . Was your question on checks serious or did you just want to argue about ARHA hounds ? The hounds have 15 seconds with no one showing the line = check then another 3 minutes to pick the rabbit back up . At least that's my understanding I'm sure that you MAY know more about ARHA rules than myself and more than you're letting on . How long does it take your hounds to recover from a loss ?
Well I guess you explained most of this in the post before I posted . Sounds like you have a good bunch of hounds . Go to different trials and see what best suites you and them .
jonnyringo wrote:
I have seen rabbits do just about anythng and everything to elude a pack of beagles in hot persuit.
I'll have to go to some ARHA trials in my area and witness these wonder dogs you speak of. Been to the AKC and UKC trails in the early 90's and seen some great ones. None near as good as the ones described in this thread.
That's the very thing to do Johnny Go to some of these trials before you knock the hide off them . You never know your hounds might do great in them . I've heard of some really tight mouth hounds being GRCH so you might have just what it takes to win . Was your question on checks serious or did you just want to argue about ARHA hounds ? The hounds have 15 seconds with no one showing the line = check then another 3 minutes to pick the rabbit back up . At least that's my understanding I'm sure that you MAY know more about ARHA rules than myself and more than you're letting on . How long does it take your hounds to recover from a loss ?
Well I guess you explained most of this in the post before I posted . Sounds like you have a good bunch of hounds . Go to different trials and see what best suites you and them .
Goodluck,
Buddy
Jude,
Actually, my question was an honest one and I initially thought that 15 seconds seemed a little short on time to establish a check but once I got the old watch out and timed my dogs I reconsidered and can see where if in a trial format where everyone should be bringing their best hounds that 15 seconds seemed more reasonable. Honestly, I still think 15 seconds is on the edge but it is pretty close to be spot on. I also realize that somedays there will be more checks than one would desire but not everyday the rabbits produce good scent and there will be more checks. I, like the rest of you members here, want as few checks as possible and love when the pack or dog hammer and circle the rabbit flawlessly for 30 minute or more. Those are the days that we all strive for.
Take care,
Ringo: I am glad you put the stopwatch on them that is the only way to understand. As you saw, a 15 second breakdown is a pretty significant one! I never realized this until I started timing them while helping with LP Judging. Most of the checks I saw were created by overly competitive beagles missing the turns and pulling the pack. The real frustrating part was having to award checks to the hounds who CREATED them. The rabbit making a 60 degree cut SHOULD NOT create a check. A rabbit running a dry road, weaving a fence, swimming a creek, climbing a tree, etc - now those are legitimate CHECKS!
Here are some pics of the brace I ran the other day. Branko's Snowflake Belle (3 years old) and Pike Ridge Blue Bolt (in the pic he is aound 6 months old but is now 8 months old). They are both 15" class beagles. Blue may go over he doesn't quit growing. I am really proud of both these hounds and these two and their blood is my foundation (Branko and Branko/Blueback cross).
Thanks Jude. I am really proud of these two. They are performing well for this time of year. We have had about an inch of rain all summer and the ground is extremely dry but yet these two seems to get the job done.
I let my Branko male "Jack" out this morning for some free running. No shock collar and just turned him loose. He checked in about 15 minutes ago then went over the hill and jumped a rabbit. Maybe he will turn the corner this year and improve his hunt. That dogs hates a shcok collar so I have been running him free. I broke him last season off deer so he should be OK. I get a little nervous letting them run free but I figure it will help him out in the long haul. His original (free collar days) hunt is returning. I learned a big lesson on shock collars last year. I use them very sparingly these days.
Take care,
... If a rabbit backtracks on ARHA LP hounds it may just get eaten 
. 
Go to some of these trials before you knock the hide off them . You never know your hounds might do great in them . I've heard of some really tight mouth hounds being GRCH so you might have just what it takes to win . Was your question on checks serious or did you just want to argue about ARHA hounds ? The hounds have 15 seconds with no one showing the line = check then another 3 minutes to pick the rabbit back up . At least that's my understanding I'm sure that you MAY know more about ARHA rules than myself and more than you're letting on 
. Sounds like you have a good bunch of hounds . Go to different trials and see what best suites you and them . 
