The American Beagler Forum

I know some of you use whelping suppliments before birth and during the nursing period of pups. Things like Milk Pro. What is your experience using these products. I have heard they can make a real difference in how much and the quality of milk a bitch produces. Also reducing the recovery time of the bitch after whelping is complete.

I've actually heard of problems with supplements such as Esbilac, which is top dollar & supposed to be one of the best. I personally know someone who had corgi pups go blind on it temporarily after the bitch died & she was bottle feeding the pups w/ it. So, what I've always used to supplement the bitch or pups is a home made mixture of 2 raw egg yolks (no whites!), evaporated milk and plain yogurt w/ live cultures. Makes an awesome supplement for the bitch, and if bottle fed to pups, add a bit of boiling water to thin out the mixture. Anyway, that's what I've been using for years, I swear by it!

Beagled1 wrote:I've actually heard of problems with supplements such as Esbilac, which is top dollar & supposed to be one of the best. I personally know someone who had corgi pups go blind on it temporarily after the bitch died & she was bottle feeding the pups w/ it. So, what I've always used to supplement the bitch or pups is a home made mixture of 2 raw egg yolks (no whites!), evaporated milk and plain yogurt w/ live cultures. Makes an awesome supplement for the bitch, and if bottle fed to pups, add a bit of boiling water to thin out the mixture. Anyway, that's what I've been using for years, I swear by it!

I've used Esbilac before and have had no problems w/ it, but have only used it a handfull of times.

There are several products like the one from Happy Jack Kennel called Milkade that you give to the female to produce more and higher quality milk, is this the same as the esbilac you are talking about. I dont think that I would need to feed puppies anything extra until weaning, if the mother is producing well.

30 days after the female has been breed I start her on Pet Cal's http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... &pf_id=234
This makes sure she has plenty on calcium.

About four to five days before she gives birth I start her on milkade http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... kw=milkade
I keep her on this till the bottle runs out. This helps eliminate milk fever/keeps the milk sweet.

Thanks for the help guys.

Duke wrote:There are several products like the one from Happy Jack Kennel called Milkade that you give to the female to produce more and higher quality milk, is this the same as the esbilac you are talking about. I dont think that I would need to feed puppies anything extra until weaning, if the mother is producing well.

Yes, same thing, just different manufacturers.

We use NO suppliments in our breeding program at all!!!!!! God only knows where they're made (CHINA???).... Use good high protien feed and you won't go wrong....

Pine Valley beagles Ga.

We get a calcium pill from our vet and give to the bitch for the first few weeks of her having pups. We also give her as much puppy food as she wants to eat while raising pups.

Keystone Kid wrote:30 days after the female has been breed I start her on Pet Cal's http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... &pf_id=234
This makes sure she has plenty on calcium.

About four to five days before she gives birth I start her on milkade http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... kw=milkade
I keep her on this till the bottle runs out. This helps eliminate milk fever/keeps the milk sweet.

This was written by Myra Harris. After much research and many C-sections I absolutely believe and follow this advice.

Calcium is about muscle contractibility far more than it is about bones and teeth. It causes muscle to be able to contract smoothly and strongly. Oxytocin is about timing. It sets up the timing for the contractions and determines when they start and when they end. It alters the cell wall of the muscle cell to allow calcium to enter the cell and let it cause the cell fiber to contract. They work in tandem as a well-oiled and rehearsed machine.

If you supplement your bitch with calcium while she is gestating, this includes a raw diet with raw bones, puppy kibble, cottage cheese, yogurt, pet tabs or any other source of calcium, you run a high rish of altering the ph of the mother's blood. If the ph is altered, the hormone secreted by the para thyroid gland will do a less than efficient job of causing the release of calcium from the bones of the bitch when she needs calcium for strong contractions. The higher ph level will render the hormone from the parathyroid gland to be virtually useless. That hormone is the facilitator for releasing extra calcium out of the bones when the bitch needs it for uterine contractions. The result will be: inertia, inabilty to push out a puppy, inability for the uterine muscle to contract appropriately to bring about the repositioning of the puppy for delivery. Following delivery, the decreased calcium level will cause the mother to be unable to figure out how to mother. She
may lick incessantly, bark or growl at her puppies or lie on her tummy refusing to allow them to nurse. A few days into the post partum time, she may go into eclampsia, which is a seizure disorder caused by low calcium levels. AGAIN......these problems generally stem from the calcium that is fed to the mother while she is gestating. If you never supplement but feed your dog a good quality, mid priced kibble designed for all adult dogs (not puppies or gestating moms) and you do not supplement with anything, chances are very, very good that your mom's ability to pull out calcium from her bones for those times when she needs extra calcium for uterine contractions, parenting skills and production of milk.....will be intact. In other words, it is when we tamper that we run into problems. Give not a shred of extra calcium to the gestating bitch. Keep calsorb on hand to use during whelping to encourage stronger contractions, Give it generously to the brand new mom and you
will see her parenting skills return to her within 15 minutes or so, and keep it on top of the puppy pen in case your bitch goes into eclampsia. However.....if you simply never tamper with the calcium intake, chances are good you'll never need to supplement it at all. If you don't tamper, the parathyroid gland and its hormone will provide the extra calcium at those times when it is needed. Just don't tamper.....no cottage cheese.

Leah

Great replies, I am not sure Milkade adds calcium to the diet. But obviously there are issues to be considered. Also Windkist I like your signature line, so very true.

I ordered the Milkade. Would it be better if I just administered it after she whelps or start it 5 days before like the directions reads?

Pike Ridge Beagles wrote:I ordered the Milkade. Would it be better if I just administered it after she whelps or start it 5 days before like the directions reads?

I actually start a week or 2 prior to whelping and haven't had any problems.

Windkist wrote:

Keystone Kid wrote:30 days after the female has been breed I start her on Pet Cal's http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... &pf_id=234
This makes sure she has plenty on calcium.

About four to five days before she gives birth I start her on milkade http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... kw=milkade
I keep her on this till the bottle runs out. This helps eliminate milk fever/keeps the milk sweet.

This was written by Myra Harris. After much research and many C-sections I absolutely believe and follow this advice.

Calcium is about muscle contractibility far more than it is about bones and teeth. It causes muscle to be able to contract smoothly and strongly. Oxytocin is about timing. It sets up the timing for the contractions and determines when they start and when they end. It alters the cell wall of the muscle cell to allow calcium to enter the cell and let it cause the cell fiber to contract. They work in tandem as a well-oiled and rehearsed machine.

If you supplement your bitch with calcium while she is gestating, this includes a raw diet with raw bones, puppy kibble, cottage cheese, yogurt, pet tabs or any other source of calcium, you run a high rish of altering the ph of the mother's blood. If the ph is altered, the hormone secreted by the para thyroid gland will do a less than efficient job of causing the release of calcium from the bones of the bitch when she needs calcium for strong contractions. The higher ph level will render the hormone from the parathyroid gland to be virtually useless. That hormone is the facilitator for releasing extra calcium out of the bones when the bitch needs it for uterine contractions. The result will be: inertia, inabilty to push out a puppy, inability for the uterine muscle to contract appropriately to bring about the repositioning of the puppy for delivery. Following delivery, the decreased calcium level will cause the mother to be unable to figure out how to mother. She
may lick incessantly, bark or growl at her puppies or lie on her tummy refusing to allow them to nurse. A few days into the post partum time, she may go into eclampsia, which is a seizure disorder caused by low calcium levels. AGAIN......these problems generally stem from the calcium that is fed to the mother while she is gestating. If you never supplement but feed your dog a good quality, mid priced kibble designed for all adult dogs (not puppies or gestating moms) and you do not supplement with anything, chances are very, very good that your mom's ability to pull out calcium from her bones for those times when she needs extra calcium for uterine contractions, parenting skills and production of milk.....will be intact. In other words, it is when we tamper that we run into problems. Give not a shred of extra calcium to the gestating bitch. Keep calsorb on hand to use during whelping to encourage stronger contractions, Give it generously to the brand new mom and you
will see her parenting skills return to her within 15 minutes or so, and keep it on top of the puppy pen in case your bitch goes into eclampsia. However.....if you simply never tamper with the calcium intake, chances are good you'll never need to supplement it at all. If you don't tamper, the parathyroid gland and its hormone will provide the extra calcium at those times when it is needed. Just don't tamper.....no cottage cheese.

Leah

I've heard of this theory, I just was not for sure of the source. It makes a lot of sense. It's alway nice to have all the information possible.

Thanks!

Leah

Windkist wrote: This was written by Myra Harris. After much research and many C-sections I absolutely believe and follow this advice.

Calcium is about muscle contractibility far more than it is about bones and teeth. It causes muscle to be able to contract smoothly and strongly. Oxytocin is about timing. It sets up the timing for the contractions and determines when they start and when they end. It alters the cell wall of the muscle cell to allow calcium to enter the cell and let it cause the cell fiber to contract. They work in tandem as a well-oiled and rehearsed machine.

If you supplement your bitch with calcium while she is gestating, this includes a raw diet with raw bones, puppy kibble, cottage cheese, yogurt, pet tabs or any other source of calcium, you run a high rish of altering the ph of the mother's blood. If the ph is altered, the hormone secreted by the para thyroid gland will do a less than efficient job of causing the release of calcium from the bones of the bitch when she needs calcium for strong contractions. The higher ph level will render the hormone from the parathyroid gland to be virtually useless. That hormone is the facilitator for releasing extra calcium out of the bones when the bitch needs it for uterine contractions. The result will be: inertia, inabilty to push out a puppy, inability for the uterine muscle to contract appropriately to bring about the repositioning of the puppy for delivery. Following delivery, the decreased calcium level will cause the mother to be unable to figure out how to mother. She
may lick incessantly, bark or growl at her puppies or lie on her tummy refusing to allow them to nurse. A few days into the post partum time, she may go into eclampsia, which is a seizure disorder caused by low calcium levels. AGAIN......these problems generally stem from the calcium that is fed to the mother while she is gestating. If you never supplement but feed your dog a good quality, mid priced kibble designed for all adult dogs (not puppies or gestating moms) and you do not supplement with anything, chances are very, very good that your mom's ability to pull out calcium from her bones for those times when she needs extra calcium for uterine contractions, parenting skills and production of milk.....will be intact. In other words, it is when we tamper that we run into problems. Give not a shred of extra calcium to the gestating bitch. Keep calsorb on hand to use during whelping to encourage stronger contractions, Give it generously to the brand new mom and you
will see her parenting skills return to her within 15 minutes or so, and keep it on top of the puppy pen in case your bitch goes into eclampsia. However.....if you simply never tamper with the calcium intake, chances are good you'll never need to supplement it at all. If you don't tamper, the parathyroid gland and its hormone will provide the extra calcium at those times when it is needed. Just don't tamper.....no cottage cheese.

Leah

Leah,
The article seems to be talking about pre whelping and during delivery. What about after the pups are born...would Milkade [ http://www.drugs.com/vet/happy-jack-milkade.html ] run a risk or be a benefit to the mom and pups?