The American Beagler Forum

Whats everyones opinion on this? I have been to 1 trial in my life and I am 100% positive my dogs could run with any trial dog, on sod or snow. I saw the rabbit cross a few times and the dogs came out about 30ft off the actual track, all baying(except 1 or 2 who followed the actual track) How the heck could they get scent that far off the track on a bad scenting day?


Im not trying to start a war, I am new to beagling and want a variety of opinions on this.

I would suggest going to more than 1 trial before you come to any 100% positive conclusion about ALL trial dogs. It sounds like you may have only watched one cast at the one trial you went to, so you may need a larger sample of trial dogs to draw your conclusions from. You could just have really outstanding dogs that you should bring to the trials so everyone can see what you've got.

Don't look for opinions, go see for yourself (more than once). I hope after you see more dogs you will enjoy this sport enough to keep going to trials.

Gun Dogs all the way Thats where it counts..... under the gun JMO

I guess I dont see why it is always gun vs trial. The same dogs I gun over I take to trials.

I also gun over my trial dogs. But here is my opinion it is a lot easier for a dog to look good when you shoot the rabbit every time it is circled once, as most people do when gun hunting. If you want to see how good a dog really is let those same dogs run that rabbit for three or four hours constantly circling back over those old tracks and see how they do. So I guess my opinion is a trial dog is just as good as any strictly gun dog.
It is also easy to say my gundogs will and can outrun and outhunt any trial dog if you never take your gundogs to a trial.

Gabe Miskimen

In order to have a "great" trial dog, you have to have one that can get the edge on 20-40 hounds without making any big noticable mistakes. Things that get dogs thrown out of a trial often get overlooked when hunting.

I love a dog with a really big nose. For gun hunting there is not a better trait to have. Many of these big nosed dogs, "pop off" "cold trail" "babble" whatever you want to call it. True gun hunters know the difference between extra mouth and a complete fool. While hunting, that dog that barks out of place, starts 90% of the rabbits and picks up the bulk of the checks. The tendency when you take this type of hound to the trials is to get "picked up" in 10 minutes for a fault you didnt realize your dog had. Then again, how often when gun hunting do you chase your hounds through the woods to see if they overrun the line 6 feet or bark out of place? Like it or not, what you consider a fault and what the rule book states might differ quite a bit. I believe thats why there are numerous different formats and registries.

A dog with a big nose can win in the trials, but finding one with real clean mouth is a challenge and depends a little on what the specific judge and format will tolerate. To me this is the differentiating factor for trial vs gun dog. Im convinced you can use your hounds for both, you just may need to be selective what hounds you run at what type of trial with what judges!

They are the same dogs here.

The same dogs that are trialed should be able to be bring the rabbit to the gun. We always look for a good gundog and trial dog. I think you shpuld look for the same characteristics in both.

There is no difference to me. One of my trial dogs jumps, the pack of trialers run, and the hunters listen and shoot. If they stand out hunting and running against our trial tested hounds, they get to come along when we go to the trials. I hope the trophies and champion certificates have not gone to their heads with the season coming up. With all the champions we will hunt with this year they may want to negotiate new contracts.

Got started in trials in 87 and now do 20 a year.But when rabbit season comes in I rabbit hunt.I seen it in both Good dogs and sorry dogs.Reg dogs and grade dog too it dose not matter.I seen men that just field trial and not hunt, have some really good dogs that can really run a rabbit.But what happens when the gun goes off and dead rabbit,It about over with for the day.Just because a pack of dogs can run one for 3 to 4 hr does not mean good gun dogs.I ve got some men that come and run there dogs in my rabbit pen that can really run a rabbit.But let the rabbits get gone were it take a little time to jump one.As one man told me.You got to run him if you jump him.Yes but we not going to here him run long if I ve got a gun in my hand.There a big different.There not many rabbits around here and if I got to jump every rabbit so the dogs can run.I don t care how good a dog can run a rabbit.He is a cull to me.Then I ve seen guys that just rabbit hunt man they got some dogs that can jump one but donot have anything that can run him.So they want the same thing a pen thats got lots of rabbits so when they lose one they can be right back on a nother.So it all depends on how many rabbits are there.But when we talk about gun dog vs trial dogs its all in what we like.So I ve got rabbit hunters that can kill 20 to 25 rabbits a day and some that can run one for three hr.I would not hunt with neather one.There a man that been coming here for ten years and is paying as high as 2000 dollors on dogs.He does not trial or hunt and really can run a rabbit with speed.The only reason he does not hunt he is waiting on that perfit pack.Two mo ago he was looking for a dog that would not run nothing but a rabbit so it will come right to him when the other dogs are running trash so he can shock the other dogs.Now I am not talking about every rabbit hunter or field trialer.But alot of them.But I alway said this.The best pack of dogs that I ever seen.Is the pack that a man likes.I mite not like them or you mite not like them but he is happy.That all that counts.

not all dogs make good trial dogs,they may be good to the gun. But when you but a judge behind them they all dont like that,some dont like strange dogs or strange people, but if your dog is ok with this,then they should make good gun dogs and trial dogs. all dogs are not trial dogs, for these resons and more but this will give you an idea. GOD BLESS, just my ideas.

mybeagles i dont call that being mouthy i call it lack of brains of knowing when to bark.but thats another story. no offence meant. if they cant trail and hunt over them they cant live here!

I have to say Gundogs simply because Field Trialing began with the intentions of gun hunters getting together to see who had the best gundogs, not the other way around. The only HUGE difference in field trial dogs and gundogs “in the past” has been hunt. When they went to enclosures for the trials and the judges and handlers became responsible for jumping the rabbits while the dogs remained leashed, than after a “person” jumped the rabbit they would hark or “talley ho” the dogs on the line, that changed the hunting beagle for years. The only thing the dogs needed to do and do well was run a line and handle well, so that’s exactly the characteristics most “trial” beagle breeders started breeding for, because that’s where the money was. Unfortunately in many lines they bred the zeal and hunt right out of them and when you went gun hunting, most trial dogs were useless until the rabbit was jumped and than they were great. Speed became a factor too. But this was all in the 50’s, 60’s & 70’s. AKC and CKC developed new formats and the ARHA and the UKC really has helped the hunting beagle by getting back to formatting their trials to be a replica of a gun hunt. I believe they are becoming one in the same again. But at one time gun hunters didn’t like the lazy line straddling trial dogs and trialers didn’t like the crazy hunt to kill / run to catch gundogs. At one time the gundog and the trial dog were really almost two totally different species. Field trialing at one point nearly caused the beagle to have 3 divisions; the show beagle, the trial beagle and the hunting beagle.

Preacher,
In other hounds like coyote, bear, coon, bobcat, etc a dog that can cold trail and come up with game is absolutely priceless and not for sale. The only hound Im aware of that its a fault to cold trail is beagles. I owned a little gyp for several years that would cold trail and frequently get the jump. If a few minutes went buy and she didnt produce she would shut up. I dont recall ever going to woods with her and not getting a jump. I wish I could say that for several other hounds Ive owned or hunted with.

I had her in a Midwest trial and we had advanced to the winners pack where it was 92 deg and sunny. The entire winners pack worked through a 40 section without a single bark. When we got to a heather grass field in the back of the thicket she began to walk a cold trail barking every 10 paces or so at a slow walk. This went on for 5-6 minutes and she covered 150 yards or so. No other hounds opened. They ordered her up and before I could run up and grab her they jumped the rabbit. The winners pack ran it for 10 minutes with several checks and never ran another rabbit. Everyone there seen it with their own eyes, and both judges acknowledged it.

This is quite normal for her, and you can put her down with any 5 dogs and she will get 80% of the jumps. She is hardest hunting hound beagle I have seen to date. She had great kennel manners and is a wonderful mother. You can lump all cold trailing dogs in the same basket as fools but you are making a big mistake. I agree there are many babbling idiots in kennels today, but if you stumble across one of these special dogs you will know the difference right away, or perhaps you wont if you follow the trend that any dog barking before the jump needs to be shot. Ive read the posts and I know how most guys feel, in my eyes we overlook some great hounds.

No, these dogs dont produce everytime, but the last time I checked the tight mouthed hot nosed dogs dont either. To me this is the greatest damage being done to todays beagles.

Mybeagles I've been running hounds 30 yrs and i've seen it to.There aggravating some times but i've seen them track down a rabbit when others didn't know there was one around.To be truthful I have one now thats just turn two.I've come so close at times to cut her but most of the time she is accountable for her game.Last winter she jumped 70% of my rabbits with two other seasoned dogs they couldn't smell it well enough to jump it.they didn't have a clue there was a rabbit around!!![I'm talking hard frost and frozen hard ground]I thought more that once she was nuts,but it happened to often and I knew she was a different type of hound.Sometimes I still debating what to do with her but winter soon will be here and then she will shine again. Ken