PKC Do we really want it?

Clyde Gott · Post by **Clyde Gott** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:57 pm

Chris, my friend, Mr. Emery is correct...I Timothy 6:10 - "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

Have fun when ya run.

Clyde Gott
Crowley's Ridge Beagles

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:48 pm

For someone like Stone Cold Beagles that has supposedly had Coonhounds for so long, it seems that he doesnt know much about them. Anyone should know that a Coonhound such as he described has no chance of winning any hunt, be it a trophy or money hunt unless it draws out with other dogs that are worthless as well or the judge has no idea what he/she is doing. Im not saying that there isnt dogs out there like he described because there is but there are a heck of alot more good dogs than there are of the type he described. A good dog will beat a babbling tree happy fool, its just that simple! A dog such as he described can get first strikes(if the judge allows it to happen) and first tree's all night long but it doesnt do him any good if there isnt anything in the tree he grabs!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:00 pm

Aaron,
If we were all as smart as you we wouldnt even need dogs to run a rabbit.

Tony Woodward
Hammertimekennels

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:02 pm

It's not the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil,it's the lack of it...

Author Unknown

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:15 pm

Chris:
First off I will admit I have very little knowledge of coondogs or what PKC has done to them.Because of this my opinion may be poorly informed.
People often make the statement that AKC walkie/talkie brace beagling almost ruined the beagle breed.I have always found this to be totally false.There were many people(hunters mostly)that kept beagles that could run a good rabbit.There has never been a shortage of that type of beagle around here.The problem lies in people allowing trials to dictate the type of dog they keep.I have always been taught to keep the type of dog I like and then,if I want to trial,to find a trial that suits my dog rather than the other way around.Are there potential problems with PKC?Definitely,just like with any group or format.It will only be as good or as bad as the people let it.I have only been to a couple of PKC hunts so far but they were large purse hunts and I have not seen anything near as bad as things I have seen in our 10 years of trialing in other formats.It may turn out that we dont continue with PKC but right now I like it and we havent won a penny.This post is not meant to attack you but merely to offer another perspective.
Thanks
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

kjohns · Post by **kjohns** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:16 pm

Let me just say that as far as the coon hounds go. What Chris and a couple others are saying may be true. Maybe I'm as blind as a bat, but I'm just not seeing it and it doesn't make sense. If the dog is treed and there aint no coon, your going to get minused. Your not going to win. Now what your saying about a strike I can see, that very likely could happen and dog get + points. Now a worthless dog is going to win once in a while. And it happens everywhere. Back to beagles. I've seen a few worthless beagles win now and then too. But they won't do it consistently. I heard one of the best statements a couple months ago about trialing. "It's hard to beat a mouthy dog" And from what I've seen I don't disagree with it yet. But I'm not going to run out and get a mouthy dog to win a trial and keep breeding mouthy dogs just to win some money with them or trophies for that matter. I want rabbits in front of my gun.

By the way, I apologize if anyone felt I was attacking them. Not my intentions.

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:19 pm

Well guys, I have come to a conclusion.

Trials have hurt both beagles and coonhounds.

Folks breed for a style or rules and forget about the #1 thing, ACCOMPLISHMENT!

Money or trophies or stud fees (which goes back to money), it don't matter. $$$$$ hurts anything. Look what it has done to professional sports. ONly the NFL has come out good so far and they have a salary cap.

The best 10 beagles I ever saw were grade hunting dogs. Why, because they got it done every day, no matter the conditions. Much thinking I have done on this and what I say is true. The guys back home that just cuss field trials never have excuses for the dogs not running good. Why, because they never have bad days. They kill bunnies every time out because all they want is ACCOMPLISHMENT!!!

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:23 pm

Boy's, you give me a automatic strike, fast, lock down,slobber mouth, pressure, slick treeing idiot and I will win the biggest part of the casts I'm out in. As for the gettin minused for the empty tree, I'll bet biggest part of the time I'll find a nest, hole, thick or a fork in the tree where a coon COULD be hiding and get circle points verses the minus. Oh yeah, I may get some minus but I'll have you guys shut out so much on track and tree I can afford a few. This is exactly why I quit competition coon hunting and Alabama Swamper along with some of the others here are absolutely correct. I've seen best of friends come to blows over a stupid club hunt worth $35.00. I've also seen the cheating over a trophy but the bottom line like Swamper said isn't the trophy it's the points that come with the placing to earn that degree in front of the name. That degree prompts more $$$ for pups and stud fees. That's my 2 cents and I no longer even keep a coon dog.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:13 pm

Boy, I must be really really really lucky. I've had coon dogs my whole life and beings that field trials and money hunts have ruined the breed, I sure got lucky time after time to get some good dogs. What are the odds. I wish I could have been around before field trials in the "good old days" where every dog was a true running never messing up type of dog! I've heard this all my life and don't buy it! I know enough to know that people tend to remember only the good things in the past, and usually onl dwell on the negative on the present.

By the way, I guess I'm equally lucky since I've just gotten into beagles and believe it or not have gotten some that hunt good, mind well run the heck out of a rabbit and make me happy (maybe someone dropped them off from a time machine !!)

wardog, if you or anyone else really can't find a good coondog, let me know, I know where there's plenty of them.

Give me a break--

houndsound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stone Cold Beagles · Post by **Stone Cold Beagles** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:27 pm

boys, i'm not saying that there aren't still good hounds out there and I am tickled to death that you guys have them, acctually I am a little jealous. But it is obvious that you don't live in my part of the country.

Stone Cold Beagles · Post by **Stone Cold Beagles** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:58 pm

Guest

you don't know me, what I know or don't know about a hound, or what know or don't know about coon hunts. I will tell you this, I have been hooked to the end of a lead for 31 years.....I know a good hound when I see one.

Houndsound
It's not that there aren't hounds today that are just as good or better then the hounds of the past, it's just that today they are far more rare then the hounds of the past. No reason for you to get personal with every one else because what you see is okay with you and what others see isn't good enough for them. Give us a break and learn to respect others opinions

kjohns- thanks...no offense taken

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:23 pm

Houndsound....nobody here said they couldn't find a good coondog. I live right in the middle of some of the best coondogs around so don't try to act like some of us are blowing smoke. My statements had nothing to do with not being able to find a dog that will tree a coon as when I quit I had two tough hounds. My post was more to the fact that when there's money involved it brings out the worst in people..friend or foe. I'll tell you another story when I quit I had a very small female walker that was super tough. She'd get off by herself and get treed, hard, crazy, radicle tree chewing slobber mouthed. The other dogs would pull to her but when we'd get to the tree she'd be the only one there. Wonder why?? She sure was a tough PKC competition dog that everyone wanted to buy and I did get big bucks for her but I wouldn't want to hunt my other dogs with her. Oh by the way she only lacked 5 points of being a UKC nite champion when I got rid of her. Competition coon dog? DEFINATELY! Coon dog? DEFINATELY NOT in my eyes! Suit someone else with $$ signs in PKC? Must have as they paid a nice 4 figure price for her. I guess good is in the eye of the beholder because a coon can be treed with a collie and a rabbit ran with a terrier. I guess I must be really, really, really, really, really lucky as I have done both with both.

wvrabbithunter · Post by **wvrabbithunter** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:09 pm

whats the big deal if you dont like money hunts dont go,dont suport it,myself i think their is a big defrents between trail dogs and rabbit dogs?????????????????????what alot of people are breeding now to win trails with to me anit a all around rabbit dogs,but they win and that brings up the price of their pups,myself i hate a boo hoo dog and will cull one fast
but that is what it takes to win with,but to each their own,and by the way when i tell a man i will sell him a pup i make sure he get it thanks frank

Stone Cold Beagles · Post by **Stone Cold Beagles** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:28 pm

Frank

I hope that last remark wasn't meant for me

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:14 pm

lol wardog, I guess we are a couple lucky joes's !!!!!! I know what you're saying, I'm sorry if my last post sounded sore!! I just hate when I hear that something like people doing one thing or another to the way that pleases them, is ruining everything for everyone. It's a big big country and there's lots of room for all of us to do as we please. I think we're coming from the same point of view! I didn't want to offend ya! By the way if you want a sorry hound I could probablly get one of those for ya' to as I've had a good share of them also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope we all see some bunnies tomorrow !

houndsound

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