The American Beagler Forum

I currently was at the arha world hunt when a dog in the grand cast i was runing in didnt have enough mouth for the other dogs to hark to when it pulled a check or struck a rabbit . 20 min into the cast allthe other handlers except for the one whoowned the dog with no mouth decided not to pick our dogs up and run it to this dog any more . we all said we paid 25 dollars to run a pack of hounds that could hark to each other and that is what we were going to do. the dog with no mouth had a tumor on its throat that is why he couldnt bark this is what his owner said. i didnt protest the cast but i did refuse to sign the score card till i got to talk tothe master of hounds in which i did and he said there was no rule in arha for a dog slipping a chech like in akc or to little mouth for other hounds to hark to .now this dogs mouth was less than a sqweek and he would not bark sometimes for a 80 yards on top of no mouth .i did sign the card but told the master of hounds that there should be a rule for this problem in arha . i said by doing nothing in the future to fix this problem in this format is like having a sickness and not getting a cure. i even asked the master of hounds to rerun the cast and i would scratch my hound so that he would realize i wasnt doing this because i lost . i whole heartedly believe this is an undesirable trait in a beagle no mouth. i didnt appreciate all the guff i got from the MI beaglers for bringing this problem to lite . i believe if you dont sayanything nothing will change for the better. after all we are supose to be bettering the beagle breed . not worrying about being in the in crowd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ok /

I am glad you spoke up been out with hounds like that before that snuck out of a check and didn't use much mouth. Just a bark here and there it is a pain triing to keep a pack together like that. I understand this can be a grey area but when not a single other dog in the castis pulling up to the hound something needs to be done, IMO.
The big thing is take that dog out solo how could you even enjoy a race unless you were chasing that hound watching it. Let alone kill rabbits over it. Kind of like listening to the radio with the mute button pushed ~!!!!Scott Umthun

I harked to one who gave false mouth, but only once...

Apparently, the judge heard the hound open 3 times for a strike/jump? open and make forward progress on the line at the checks? Monte's jody hound has a great calling mouth, not all hounds do. some times hounds are independent or in a position to not hear a harking voice (wind/snow). Hounds can be a strange lot, not trusting, grouped with strange hounds, conditions or having something more interesting in their nose (lots of rabbit in the area and having their own track to work out is sometimes more overpowering than harking to anther's call).
While having a tumor in the throat might lessen the vocals, unless we are breeding for a hound with tumors in it's throat, it makes the hound no less of a rabbitdawg and has no bearing on the beagle breed, it seems the judge found the weakness non-inhibiting to his ability to hear, follow and score the hound.
I read your post as indeed sour grapes, but I know how you feel to drive so far to anther's location and have no race, but at least you had rabbits to run, we were sent to a dry hole...

I did hear that from a guy that was there. He said it was a dog with a tumor or growth in its throat and the dog just kind of whistled when he opened. You had to be right on top of him to even hear the dog. I don't have a dog in this fight so maybe I should keep my nose out of it. Scott Umthun

There is no fight, it was implied a hound with a physical abnormality in it throat couldn't be heard and was going to ruin the breed. It was totally a judges call, if the judge could hear the hound speak and follow it's race, he deemed the other hounds could also.
The judge in the next cast obviously differed on the opinion and picked the hound up for some offense,... so goes field trialing.

Big River Beagles S wrote:In some defense of Scott I heard the same thing was complained aboutthe next round with the same dog and the dog was picked up. Do not know if that is fact or not but I did hear that from a guy that was there. He said it was a dog with a tumor or growth in its throat and the dog just kind of whistled when he opened. You had to be right on top of him to even hear the dog. I don't have a dog in this fight so maybe I should keep my nose out of it. Scott Umthun-

This is untrue there is no rule in little pack to pick a dog up except for minuses and major off game, however the dog was measured out the next round but this is before he had a chance to run in the 2nd cast.

I stand corrected. I will edit that out of my previous post. Still doesn't say I agree with it .If dog doesn't have enough mouth to be heard by the other hounds to be able to go to him is that fair. It would be different if it wasn't all dogs in the cast.

nothing in the rules wrong with it. ive seen several dogs over the years that did well due to that trait. doesnt happen often enough to be a rule change.

i dont have a dog in the fight either , but it sounds to me that this dog must have been the only one in the cast that could find a rabbit or get a check ! i do know one thing though ! why i dont trial , jmo

this is rediculous
whistler is a tough dog
and people got to cry a wine about not being able to run with him
lp hof female droopy ears has a lil bark and can get away from the dogs as well
if a dog had such a big mouth that when he barked he would send your dog back to the truck with his tail between his legs would you cry then too
same difference to me
whistler wins and made grand champ by jumping running and checking other dogs to score
aint that the way other dogs win too
i dont think there is a rule about what kind of mouth a dog has just as long as hes giving mouth

Wild cat,
like I said I have no dog in this fight, I am not picking on Whistler (never seen him run). I was just making a general statement about dogs not using enough mouth. I also have a female at my house that goes hoarse if you run her alot and her voice gets muffled and very whistly and she can and does get out on the dogs easily when her voice is like this I have lost her before because you have to be up close to hear her at all. That is my point I wouldn't run her in a trial like this because I don't believe it gives other dogs a fair shake. I won't breed this female either because I don't know if it s a heriditary thing or not vet said nothing physicaly wrong with the dog. That is just my opinion. I won't sale this dog either because of this.
I am sure he is a fine hound and strong. Scott Umthun
Sorry if I offended anyone, it was not my intention....

10-4

Whistler is a good hound.
Sometimes I beat him Sometimes he beats me!!
He has a weak mouth. It is an advantage!!!
If a dog is way faster than normal that is also an advantage. Should we make a rule against them???
If a dog has a great nose should it be disqualified??
How about Whistler is running a rabbit by himself and a judge dont hear him, is that an advantage??? Do you think Josh would complain???
I believe he would just crack a big grin and say I knew that could happen when I packed him here.

The key is when you run against a dog like that know where yours is and be ready to get your dog on him. If it happened over and over get a dog that gets more checks and you wont have to worry about it. He cant get away if he cant get a check

if a dog doesnt bark loud because of a tumor on its throat , its not the dogs fault ! if a dog does not bark loud because he doesnt want other dogs running his rabbit , then i say smart dog , after all a trial is a competition , isnt it ? as long as it barks on the track , and the judge can hear it , thats all that matters , it sounds like a good trial dog to me ! you can always use the argument that when you breed your dogs for foot , brains and nose , you should have breed a little more ears in them or even better , get you one that dont have to rely on another dog to help them out , let them learn to run there own rabbit

that is what iam talking about because somebody dont agree with something there are mad because they lost you judges were there when i saidto run the cast over with the other handlers and i would scratch my hound. if they would . just like one of the replys to the post said itisan advantage. plain and simple . not fair to other hounds or owners. and to say that there wasnt another rabbit dog out of the other 4 GRANDS! is ridiculous ! iam not mad because i lost but mad that arha allows a dog to win due to this condition. iam not taking anything away from this whistler dog . just the fact arha doesnt have a rule to address an obveous advantage . it was not his speed or checking ability that gave him an easy win . IT WAS HIS LACK OF MOUTH and youknow that is true.