LITTLE IRELAND

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LITTLE IRELAND

Postby brushyfork » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:37 pm

Does anyone have line bred little ireland hounds?
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Bev » Sat May 01, 2010 9:48 am

There used to be a beagler on here by the name of Joe West who had a kennel full. Last I heard he was living in Upstate New York. Troy Hill Beagles, or something like that.
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Ken Yerian » Sun May 02, 2010 6:02 am

Contact Tim Hackworth at Woodpont Beagles http://www.woodpontbeagles.com/ .
He knows as much about that bloodline as anyone.
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Laneline » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:34 pm

I visited a guy this past Saturday and was looking at his "Walkers". In the back there was these two beagles. One was a 13 year old male and the other was a 4 year old male. I asked him what they were out of, he really didn't know but he took me in the house and got the pedigrees. The young male didn't have anything but backyard names "his dogs" in the first 3 generations, but then from there back they were pretty much linebred Little Ireland with some Gay crosses. Not just a few crosses, Linebred. He told me the dog was a medium speed dog with extreme hunt and a great nose, but I have not seen the dog run. I don't want to give his number out without his permission, but I can make sure you are in contact with him. He is not "into" beagles at all, just a big-time Coon Hunter that just wanted a couple of Beagles to hunt with from time to time, and a few years ago, he got a few. I can only wonder how many well bred "line-bred" great dogs are in backyards and unseen or unheard of. If this sounds like you, or if I can help you, just let me know. Jim
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." - Mark Twain
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby rabbitsmoker » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:43 pm

There is a old man here just like you described Jim he has a 13 year old female riverroad challenger is her granddad and has a branko male as close to brankos annie you will ever see and another gay male bred out of this world and a little ireland female is 9 years old We never know what our neibor has tied in his back yard
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby bill huttozac » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:16 am

If my memory serves me well and sometimes it doe not, FC River Road Challenger was not line bred Gay. He was a grandson of Dingus Macrae through FC Cane Country Jennie. I would say that finding a fairly young dog (for breeding purposes) that is linebred Little Irish for 5 generations or more would be like hitting the lottery.
Last edited by bill huttozac on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Newt » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:16 am

Don't know if the dog is still living/available. http://beaglestud.com/ads/little-irelands-thunder.htm
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Danny G » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:01 am

I have had Little Irelands Thunder For about 4 1/2 years now. He is 9 years old. I think he is close to 1/3 Little Ireland then Gay then Bedlam.
My email is dggrubb@gmail.com
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby rabbitsmoker » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 am

bill huttozac wrote:If my memory serves me well and sometimes it doe not, FC River Road Challenger was not line bred Gay. He was a grandson of Dingus Macrae through FC Cane Country Jennie. I would say that finding a fairly young dog (for breeding purposes) that is linebred Little Irish for 5 generations or more would be like hitting the lottery.

No he was not Gay but you will find alot of crosses with a little Dingus bred in the back generation all linebred gay hounds will have some out cross done by Frank back in past generations because thats what Frank Reece did then went back into the Gay blood line He used alot of studs that wasnt Gay that improved the Gay bloodline then went back to the Gay line thats what im doing making outcrosses then crossin back to the Gay line From what i have studied about Frank Reeces breeding program he didnt breed strait Gay hounds he made out crosses from time to time so from ive seen all gay hounds has out crosses in them but bred back to the line. Alot breeders perfer the to keep the strait Gay line which thats good if thats what they like but i believe if Frank was alive today he would still make out crosses like he did but always go back to from the cross to the Gay I have never owned Little Ireland but i sure would like to from what i hear they still cross good with the Gay line
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Newt » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:48 pm

You can say the same for Little Ireland and almost any so called bloodline. Tom Dornin started out breeding a bluecap bitch, Daniel's Becky, to a show champion, Wagon Wheels Winter Sport. He kept Little Irelands Binkey from that cross. He also bred Becky to FC Wilson's Timmy II. He then crossed Binkey on the Wilson's Timmy II X Becky bitches to establish his Little Ireland Kennel. Tom gave Becky to Mandy Cronin, after Becky was about ten years old. Becky was bred, by accident, to Show Champion Chillybrook's Morning Glory and produced Bedlam Boomer. Then Tom bred several of his Binkey bred bitches to Boomer and Chillybrook' Chuckles to keep the good conformation.
Tom Dornin was severly handicapped by emphysema. He started raising beagles as a means to occupy his time because he could no longer do other things that he enjoyed. His devoted wife, Velta, probably should get as much credit as Tom for the maintainace of the LI Kennel. Once his health forced him out, a beagler in West Virginia, CB Tooley, if I remember correctly, got most of his hounds. I think Tooley is no longer in beagling.
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby bill huttozac » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 pm

Newt - Well stated. I enjoyed the history lesson on the Show Hound ancestors.

Rabbitsmoker - I am not sure exactly what your point is but let me share this with you about the so called "out crosses" made by Mr. Frank Reese. The out crosses, by far and large, did not bring in a lot of new blood or different genetics because the ancestral roots of the studs were the same roots as his females. This way, the "new blood" was from the same foundation stock as his bitches and amounted to line breeding.
I am sure that you could ask six different people to define "line breeding" and you likely would get three different answers.
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby rabbitsmoker » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:57 pm

There is nothing wrong with linebreeding thats mainly what i do For instance the male i bred to ruby generations back was all gay bred then a outcross was made to dingus and other crosses a 6 generation ped would not show this a 12 showed a little but farther back was linebred gay hounds then i crossed him back to a linebred gay What my point was Frank made outcrosses then went back to Gay to get a certain chararistic such looks when he bred to the show dogs they wasnt Gay he made another outcross to improve speed he liked a hard driven hound that would run with ther head up the linebred gay hounds today arent as fast as Frank run what i was saying is alot of linebred gay kennels make very few if any outcrosses but as for my part when i make a outcross ther is linebred gay hounds in the ped and always go back the next breedin to my linebred gay dogs its all in what a breeder is trying to do its all good Frank made the comment his best crosses was coming back into the gay line after the outcross I have found that to be true from what ive seen
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Newt » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:09 pm

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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Beagle Huntsman » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:51 am

Let me step in here and clear up a few things....

First, Daniel's Becky was bred to Show Champion Wagon Wheels Winter Sport to produce Little Ireland's Binkey. This was the only litter Becky produced, to my knowledge, or at least the only time you will see her name in pedigrees.

It was Little Ireland's Bridget, an old-time brace trial bred female like Becky above, who was bred to FC. Wilson's Timmy II. Timmy was also brace-bred, but these were brace hounds from the 60s, when they still ran a rabbit with a medium speed. Bridget produced Bebe, who was bred back to Timmy II to produce Abigail. Abigial was then bred to Binkey, and I think Bebe was also bred to Binkey a time or two.

When Little Ireland's Bridget was old (maybe 10), after Tom no longer owned her, she was accidentally bred to Chillybrook Morning Glory, a show-bred (not show champion) dog who was just owned by a rabbit hunter for gunning. From that cross came Bedlam Boomer, a great running hound. Tom bred some of his hounds coming down from Abigail and Binkey to Boomer.

My foundation female, Woodpont Brandywine, was sired by Bedlam Boomer and out of Little Ireland's Brigid, who was from the Binkey-Abigail line. For what I wanted, I thought it was the best bloodline in America at that time (late 70s - early 80s).
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Re: LITTLE IRELAND

Postby Beagle Huntsman » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:11 am

As for Gay, Frank Reese did mostly outcross on his female line throughout the 50s and 60s. He mostly used brace-bred field champions such as FC. Williams' Pointline Buddy (sire of Gay Baker and Gay Dash) and FC. Wilson's Timmy II (same hound used by Tom Dornin). It would be a stretch to call his methods line breeding. He never bred to FC. Dingus Macrae, to my knowledge, but did breed to a dog called Dutch Fork Huntmaster, who was a full brother to Dingus and owned by someone in the Carolinas near where Frank lived. From Huntmaster, he got Gay Blaze.

After Frank's hounds got popular in the 1970s and 80s, he started crossing more and more on his own males, thereby starting to linebreed and inbreed. This strengthened his bloodline and fixed many of the traits the Gay line is known for. I would guess much of the reason for his change in breeding style was the lack of good outside lines, since the brace hounds were useless by then and the gundog movement was barely started. Frank did breed once to Little Ireland's Binkey. From that cross came Gay Time, who occasionally shows up in pedigrees today. I watched Time run several times and liked him, except that he would run his mouth in the check area when he should have been quiet. He searched like a bird dog, and many of the hounds from Baker were the same way. Quick, active, always moving out ahead of the handler.

As for outcrossing....Once you have built your bloodline, outcrossing should only be done when you need to add something to your line, such as conformation, mouth, size, etc. Then you have to go right back to your own line in the next cross, or you run the risk of losing your original traits/line. Most of the crosses a breeder makes should be within his/her own line, and not outcrosses. As your hounds become more and more suitable to you, it will get harder and harder to find outcrosses that you believe will help you. That is why you see most of the well-known breeders using their own studs more often as time goes on.
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