unbelievable speed

[packmaster]

I have 2 freinds that paid money for junk dogs like those .They were just gettting into the sport,I lined a grade dog up,and they thought he was runnin trash ,untll the rabbbit came back around ,and the dog was still babblin at the same jump spot. needless to say we never did get a shot.I turned my buddy on to some meat hounds ,and he seen the light!the other friend still comes up with excuses on why his dog dont run. Please if your in to this style of hound.Dont tell people that they are good for small areas. Give me a break!Those hounds Suck,and they are not how any beagle I have ever seen should run! what a joke!

[tom summers]

Too each his own. Most of these gentlemen running these hounds do not refer to them as gundogs they call them hobby dogs. Who cares if they like them they ahve to feed them. If it continues to get them out of the house so be it. I do not want any of these dogs either I run fast hounds also but let them be. I also agree that if any of the due sell them that thye are not sold as a gundog .This is the format they choose it is no different thatn staunch supporters of of LP running only that for mat or the same with SPO .

To Each his own.

Tom

[Freeman Beagles]

I sold 2 Patch pups last year to an older gentleman that had "Walkie Talkie" dogs. When the 2 pups were 8 months old he had killed a bunch of rabbits from them. He had sold all of his slow dogs and came back and bought another pup from me. He bought 2 more pups from me this year. There is still hope for these beaglers!!!!

[Emery]

I had heard the term Walkie Talkie dogs, but now I guess I have seen them... I personally don't like a "fast" dog, I am too slow myself for that... The dogs I have had were a good medium speed dog. I couldn't stand to watch/feed what I saw on that video.

All that being said, they like what they have, just like you and I like what we have. They probably sit back and watch LPH, Little Pack and Progressive Pack dogs and laugh at them like we are doing at theirs.

If they are happy, then let them be happy. We each drive a different make of vehicle for our own reason, same goes for dogs...........

Emery

[Alabama John]

DAVE, Thanks for thinking of me. WE discussed this before. Great folks!

I'm probably the only one on here that ever bred these dogs and competed in trials back then trying to champion a dog in AKC. Mine were from the old time Pleasant Run Kennels mostly.
A little history I think is good, I hope so. AKC Beagles were not like those of today. The emphasis has done a 180 degrees turnaround.

There were a few men that picked up the culls in AKC dogs and tried to make a pack out of them. These men were looked down on by the AKC and those that kept AKC dogs to field trial as they were deluting the blood that AKC was breeding for. You can usually tell them as their dogs pedigrees don't have many if any Champions up close in them. They bred away from the Champions.
Their names never will be remembered by anyone but folks that knew these brave men personally as their dogs never got any recognition nor a field champion title or were advertised in any of the popular Beagle magazines for stud or puppies out of them. THEY WERE CULLS!

AKC Field Champion was as high an accomplishment an AKC Beagle could get. There were not trials between Champions to become Grand or anything like that.

There was ONLY ONE WAY to become an AKC Field Champion and that was the AKC Brace Trials or AKC Pack Trials like the video. I competed in both.

I say again, if you have AKC CHAMPIONS in your dogs pedigree way back, what you saw on the video is what you have in your dogs blood. They were good at what you saw, close enough on track to become a Field Champion.
Read the old magazines stud and puppy ads carefully with what I am saying in mind and you'll understand the terminology used much better that they used to sell you on using their stud or buying a pup.

[Bev]

I guess the problem I have with Traditional Brace is the genetic engineering that went on -- that they had to retard and deform the breed to get it. Left alone, those beagles would have remained a medium to fast-footed hound with a desire to chase something. That walkie-talkie stuff didn't come about until about the 60's, and the judges of the time are responsible for it. They kept putting ribbons on the "cleanest" and "closest" dogs. The breeders bred for the ribbon and judges kept giving it to them -- rewarding them all the way to the point of ruination for any kind of hunting. They hurt the breed, period. And those old men weren't old men when it was going on.

Here's an example of what breeders did to cut the legs out from under the hounds....for the ribbon, of course:



I'm glad to see those dogs in the video had some conformation back;too bad they still have no brains.

[xdawg2]

Scratching my head, the video looked like a still shot with a voice over of dogs barking...

[johns03272008]

I wouldn't even feed one of those as a pet!! They cant even shut their mouths when they aint even running/walking a line!! NO BRAINS!!

[davidc5936]

Contrary to what some have said on this post, all AKC dogs run in field trials in the 60's and early 70's did not run like this video. I was active in field trialing dogs during those years and saw some of the best run, and a dog that ran like that would not have placed in a field trial. I won a class of 92 15" males in 1969 with a dog that could run in many SPO and Gun Dog Brace trials today. Dogs were starting to trend toward what you saw on this video, but were far from it in 1970. Our SPO dogs of today trace their lineage back to the same dogs these brace dogs do, it's just that at some point in the early 1970's, 2 branchs formed and grew in different directions. I got back into beagling a few years ago because I heard that the SPO trials let a dog run a rabbit, and when I visited a couple, I saw dogs that were the kind of dogs I like to run.
I expect that within 20 years, what is now called traditional brace beagling will have died out or become so small as to be almost invisible. I believe that as long as there are folks who like to hunt rabbits, there will be good rabbit dogs.

[Alabama John]

Bev,

Wish you would post the pedigree of that dog you posted. I'll bet my hat he is 40's, 50's or 60's AKC, maybe a Champion!

You are right. I was only 13 -16 or so in the early 50's and wanted the trophies and recognition that was given the real beagle breeders that were following the AKC standard of the perfect Champion. Whatever was winning I bred for.

But, to take up for myself and others that were young men looked up to and in training to be judges by the AKC, I and my uncles and friends also has a pack of unregistered beagles that could run a Canecutter down like I have today.

Even today I only have one AKC dog, the rest are unregistered, cold blooded culls. Because of AKC Champions, they still today have the bad taste for AKC dogs to hunt with in my area.

ARHA changed a lot of thinking for the better. Gave us a registry to run our non AKC culls. They've done pretty well too.

[Bev]

The dog's name is FC Bobo's Mr. Friendly. If I can find the old H&H magazine I scanned it from I will post the pedigree. He was on the cover.

[KPrice]

I say again, if you have AKC CHAMPIONS in your dogs pedigree way back, what you saw on the video is what you have in your dogs blood. They were good at what you saw, close enough on track to become a Field Champion.
Read the old magazines stud and puppy ads carefully with what I am saying in mind and you'll understand the terminology used much better that they used to sell you on using their stud or buying a pup.

You are leaving out a pretty large part of the beagling community. The Large Pack guys have a long history as well and I guarantee there are a lot of AKC FC's from the old days that did not fall under this same umbrella.

[billi]

I agree with you David, i and many others still had dogs that would be at least med speed in todays standards during that time frame. I also recall hearing Mr Reese from Hickory NC that didnt budge that direction. At the time i recall it was the ol Henryville club that i remember watching the slow dogs. I just like watching dogs so it didnt matter other than you would freeze to death.

[ohlinger]

DAVE, Thanks for thinking of me. WE discussed this before. Great folks!

I'm probably the only one on here that ever bred these dogs and competed in trials back then trying to champion a dog in AKC. Mine were from the old time Pleasant Run Kennels mostly.
A little history I think is good, I hope so. AKC Beagles were not like those of today. The emphasis has done a 180 degrees turnaround.

There were a few men that picked up the culls in AKC dogs and tried to make a pack out of them. These men were looked down on by the AKC and those that kept AKC dogs to field trial as they were deluting the blood that AKC was breeding for. You can usually tell them as their dogs pedigrees don't have many if any Champions up close in them. They bred away from the Champions.
Their names never will be remembered by anyone but folks that knew these brave men personally as their dogs never got any recognition nor a field champion title or were advertised in any of the popular Beagle magazines for stud or puppies out of them. THEY WERE CULLS!

AKC Field Champion was as high an accomplishment an AKC Beagle could get. There were not trials between Champions to become Grand or anything like that.

There was ONLY ONE WAY to become an AKC Field Champion and that was the AKC Brace Trials or AKC Pack Trials like the video. I competed in both.

I say again, if you have AKC CHAMPIONS in your dogs pedigree way back, what you saw on the video is what you have in your dogs blood. They were good at what you saw, close enough on track to become a Field Champion.
Read the old magazines stud and puppy ads carefully with what I am saying in mind and you'll understand the terminology used much better that they used to sell you on using their stud or buying a pup.

Lol not knocking you're experience and you have alot more than me and just like David Swiger you are wrong about this statement. The hare guys up north have always had a driving hard rabbit hound. just b/c that is what was around you in you're area does not mean that is what was happening all over the world with beagles. That is not how all a.k.c dogs have always ran. maybe a large majority in your area but there is plenty of dogs akc registered that do no have the walkie talkie blood in there pedigree all a.k.c dogs originate from alot of the same dogs but....the walkie was bred down to be that way it idd'nt start off like that.. I don't know where the information is coming from but you need to check into it again. and look alil harder. just like i already told david swiger. You're wrong. it's a misconception you are passing on. arha and ukc were not even around yet when the brace movement was alreayd a dieing movement. You ran you're a.k.c culls b/c they were prbly outbred brace style hounds to curs or some other faster hunting dog. bc you did'nt know where to find beagles that were not brace bred. so now you say that all a.k.c dogs were brace bred at one point which is absolutely not true. down south yes maybe popular back then up north that is not what was being ran. that is not even how the original a.k.c packs ran that were brought over from england. you have said this for al long time alabama john and i have not found anything anywhere that supports what you say in fact i have found facts that disprove it all. brace was a movement. it was not what started the a.k.c

[Bev]

I've been told by some of the old AKC gundog beaglers that when AKC pushed for the gundog movement to revive the hunting beagle trials (SPO circa 1978) they brought some of the northern hare blood down and infused a little foot and desire back in. And of course, there were some lines that did not go the way of Traditional Brace. I always like to tell people who make fun of harehounds that if it weren't for those ol' fast rough harehounds, they'd still be running peanut rollers, lol.