medium, medium fast, or fast??????

bluehound1 · Post by **bluehound1** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:36 pm

Me and my brother are raising gundogs and we like a medium to medium fast dog. We have never been to a trail before but would love to try it one day. I was just wondering what do you guys and gals like best?A medium, medium fast, or fast dog. And also if you raise trail dogs, gundogs, or use them for both? Depending on the speed of dog you choose what are the pros and cons of each speed if any? Please everyone feel free to give your honest opinion.

Jeremy

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:02 pm

I will take a stab at this. Personally I use the same dogs to hunt over as I use to trial and would have it no other way. With that being said, If you like a get up and go type dog then medium fast to the lower end of fast seems to be the most reliable for bring a rabbit to the gun. I personally don't like medium speed dogs although they do have less checks than my pack, but I will sacrifice a little control for the speed and drive because that is what I love. Personally when it comes to truly fast dogs I have not seen many that I was pleased with, they all seemed to over run very bad or they were wild as a buck and constantly kept the race screwed up. Peoples definition of fast is a very broad and ambiguous term. Some people think that a dog that can swing out or cut a pack and pick it up and drive is a truly fast dog, to me that is not fast that is reckless, but I don't knock those who like this. In arha Little Pack I see more and more of these super fast and super rough dogs who cause check after check with their inability to handle the front when they get it. Dogs that will come off the line and swing or cut just to get the front are not the kind of dog that I personally like or would feed. I prefer a medium fast to low end fast dog that can handle a line, these dogs don't always win but they are the ones that I would prefer to hunt with. With that being said their are some fast dogs out their that can really handle a line, but I find the good ones to be few and far between. I also find it very difficult to put together a real good pack of dogs that are super fast and over competitive. I watched a pack of these type dogs run two years ago and they would scream out on the rabbit when it was running straight, but seemed to have numerous long checks and also had a problem working the checks out. The running was very ugly and very hit and miss.

Big Dog

Robert W. Mccoy Jr · Post by **Robert W. Mccoy Jr** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:58 pm

I personnaly like medium to medium fast clean running dogs.
Dogs that cause minimum break downs and run the rabbit as fast as the scenting and terrain allows.

Dogs that push there limits and cause checks are not fast. They are rough.

Good luck getting anyone to agree on this.LOL

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:27 am

I like them very fast and clean, the kind that leave the rest behind and have very few checks. I want them to slow down and work a track when they have to but I also want them to make the rabbit run for his life when they can. These kind are few and far between but they do exist. Fast doesn't always mean rough.
I am a houndsman first and a rabbit hunter second. I don't trial, mainly because there aren't any close by. I run both hare and cottontails.

DarrinG · Post by **DarrinG** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:11 am

I kept medium speed dogs for years but recently switched to a medium-fast style. The medium speed kind of lost it's "excitement" to me, if you will. To borrow a phrase I heard from a guy recently, I want my dogs to run the rabbit with a kinfe and fork in their paws, run that sucker to overtake and eat it!!!!

Beagleman973 · Post by **Beagleman973** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:18 am

Rob,

I agree with you completely! A dog or pack that isn't creating their own checks by being rough will circle a rabbit back to the gun a lot quicker than one that causes a half-dozen checks on a circle!

B.Trull · Post by **B.Trull** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:01 pm

I run hounds that pursue the rabbit with the intent to catch and eat it. I tolerate no cold trailin , extra mouth or quit in my pack. I dont like blow a hole in the ground hounds, or those who run all scent and no rabbit. I like clean hounds who on a good scent day are right behind the rabbit and might catch it if it doesnt go to ground and on poor scent days will gear down to stay in contact with the line. I gun hunt and dont trial. Results are what count and throw style out, speed is relative to the availble scent on that given day and time. Good luck

Brad
LonePine Kennels
Bowling Green, Indiana

Buckeye Bob · Post by **Buckeye Bob** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:15 pm

OK,guess I'll weigh in here on my preferance.Brains to run a track as fast as the dogs nose will allow it.Most of the times that is going to be medium speed with the dogs I run now,although I've seen them run a track pretty fast.I enjoy Little Pack because its all there is around here but I am increasingly disenchanted with the rough,super fast dogs that score a bunch of points cuz none of em can keep the track moving with no breakdowns or losses-sorry,just my opinion.The dog who is the fastest in my kennel and I am positive could make LP Champion is looking for a new home cause he's too fast.Is this a contradiction?....one of the best things I can think of doing is to sit back and listen to a pack of beagles POUNDING a bunny-track for at least a half hour.

Steve C. · Post by **Steve C.** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:07 pm

I don't disagree with anything posted so far, but I'd say that speed shouldn't be the issue. Most beagles are physically able to run faster than their nose allows. The poor ones don't let this stop them and they overrun and create checks and losses. The good ones who can grab the front and keep it without losses and breakdowns obviously have the brains, nose and talent and certainly should be preferred over the former. Running the rabbit without checks in itself creates speed. The true test of speed is to time a hound circling the rabbit, then deduct out lost time on checks and time spent off the line. I see a lot of "fast" hounds who end up with a negative number. The faster the better- provided the dog maintains contact with the line. I've had exactly 2 hounds in my life who could pull away from a pack and maintain the run while the other hounds have checks and losses behind it. They're pretty rare.

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:43 am

Steve, I understand your point but I do think speed is the issue, everything else being equal. A dog that maintains contact with the line but never gets above a walk is much different than a dog that maintains contact with the line and moves the track as fast as possible. I've seen slower dogs that are rough and faster dogs that are clean. Speed and running rough are two different issues, although they often go together. A dogs mistakes are multiplied by how fast they are going.

Jeremy, to answer your original question, a good medium speed hound will probably account for more rabbits in the freezer day in and day out if you hunt cottontails. I believe a good, fast hound will work best throughout the year if you hunt hare. By good I mean one that maintains contact with the line as much as possible and is able to adjust according to conditions.

lee ga · Post by **lee ga** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:13 am

there is speed and then there is speed that comes from ability. a hound with the ability to drive quickly and cleanly is a pleasure to watch and hunt with. wish i had a few.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:58 pm

Just my opinion here on speed..... 99% of the people out there say they have "medium-fast dogs" A dog they try to sell because it's too slow for their pack they describe as "medium speed". A dog that runs the front of their dogs they call "Fast" but then they say "Loose, or rough". The dog they sold ya as "medium"....... if you try and sell it back it's "slow"

JR Dunlap · Post by **JR Dunlap** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:54 am

just because a dog is fast dont mean its sloppy
i like the line control but i like speed to you try
to breed for both speed sometimes can be overrated
and sometimes underrated i run ukc arha lp and akc spo
and in all three formats you needs some good speed
but if you get one that has to much the line dog will eat you up
on the score card.

DUNLAP KENNELS
J.R Dunlap

Steve C. · Post by **Steve C.** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:43 am

Tom, you're right that speed isn't a fault and that lack of it IS. A dog should run at the highest speed he can according to conditions. Last year I witnessed a hound while hunting that pretty well showed what a hound should be capable of. The first day we ran him the temp was in the single numbers on top of 2- 3 feet of old crust. My best dog could jump game and pick at the track but could not circle the hare. We put this male down alone and he followed the track, literally step by step at a snail's pace. It was just like a brace trial. I watched for 20 minutes while he worked the line maybe 100 feet. Certainly not what I look for in a hunting dog, but we killed the hare after about 2 hours. While I was impressed with his patience, I wouldn't want to hunt like this. The following day was quite a bit warmer and scent improved. This same dog led a fast pack all day! NOW, I'm impressed! Is this dog fast, slow, medium? I can't describe him other than to say that he runs as fast as conditions allow. All good dogs are fast when they can be, slow when they have to be. I've hunted with a lot of excellent gun dogs but some of them would get left behind on good scenting days while some others would get rough on tough days. The true test of a hound is his performance over a season under all conditions.

Ranger · Post by **Ranger** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:52 pm

Right on Steve. I couldn't agree more.