Rough running on powdery snow/ question

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brush_hog
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:01 am
Location: SC Pennsylvania

Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by brush_hog »

We have had some rough conditions on powdery snow here in SC Pennsylvania for a week or so. I have a question and a comment. First off, my 1 1/2 year old male is big-nosed, and has a tendency to mouth off once in a while. It is usually not an issue, especially in the fall, because he will mouth off once or twice, and then jump a rabbit within a minute or so about 80% of the time. Last year in a late season, he was able to produce and run rabbits when everyone else was in their living rooms. He ran in ice and snow, or whatever else. There are fewer rabbits this year, but he is mouthier than all get out here lately. My question is, should I assume it is the conditions causing this, or something else? There have been several young dogs added to the pack in the last year. On a side note, my daughter has a pup (8 months) that we were going to get rid of because she is far slower than our other hounds, and a little mouthy. She didn't get as much ground time as the other dogs as a result. I decided to take her in this crappy snow because of her big nose (and big mouth :) ), and she does a great job! A little slower than the other dogs, but she can stick with it while the other dogs are over-running the tracks. Last Saturday she saved the hunt so to speak, as we decided to harvest a couple for the dogs. I was just kinda tickled that we kept her around, for my daughter's sake, and it turns out she will be able to earn her keep.

Bunnyblaster
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by Bunnyblaster »

This is all JMO so take it for what it's worth.

Some of this is from my own personal experience and some of this is advice from the people on here.

Your 1 1/2 year old male may be getting mouthier with age, may be due to not being run enough, may be because of the added pressure of adding more dogs to your pack, etc. You can pinpoint the cause by running him more and/or by himself to see if he comes out of it. If he does then you know the cause and you can keep an eye on it. If he doesn't then you have your answer and either way you have to decide if it's something you can tolerate or not. I personally don't mind a little extra mouth as long as it's on rabbit scent and as long as it doesn't disrupt the rest of the dogs and cause issues when I'm hunting. If it starts to pull other dogs around(especially pups and young dogs) then I have no use for the dog. Some people say solo time to bring the dog out of it but I'll be honest I'm not a soloing kinda guy......when I go hunt I go hunt.......with the exception of pups sometimes.
Now for the 8 month old pup, I think that's great she's an asset to your pack. The only think you'll want to watch out for is if she is too slow for the rest of your pack and won't pick up and go with them on a track then she may end up pulling them back to her when they hit a check. If she is too far behind her barking can draw them back and end up making the run that much worse.........this one is from my own personal experience.

Good luck with them both and let us know how they do.
Bunnyblaster

"You can't change the past but you can ruin the present by worrying about the future."

NorWester1
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by NorWester1 »

Brushhog, when you write your dog is.....
but he is mouthier than all get out here lately.
......what exactly do you mean? Is he just calling on old tracks before the rabbit is up? Is he "me too'ing" to your other dogs when they lift a rabbit? Is he dog tracking? Perhaps opening on the backtrack?

It could be that the scenting is lousy enough it may sound like your dog is just popping off on old tracks when in fact he is opening on hot tracks, but having a hard time connecting the dots so to speak.
What are your other dogs doing while he is behaving like this?

I kinda think along the same lines as Bunnyblaster in that if the dog is smelling rabbit...... I'll tolerate some mouthiness.

brush_hog
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Location: SC Pennsylvania

Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by brush_hog »

Sorry I wasn't a little quicker getting back to this post. Just to clue everyone in on a couple things. This dog is run ALOT. He runs at least five days a week, and sometimes six or seven. I am laid off now, and I run at least once a day and sometimes twice. He was groomed as a solo dog for about a year. He jumps the majority of the rabbits when we are out, and he is mouthing on old tracks. I don't mind a little extra mouth either, as it seems to get the rabbits going. I run in pairs usually during the hunting season because it is alot easier to keep track of two dogs, and they handle well. He won't join with the other dog(s) until they start running hard. As a follow up, we added several more inches of powdery snow in the last couple days. His cold nose nose has slacked off, and he is really producing the rabbits. I don't understand how you add more of the crappy snow, and he kinda comes out of it. I have a couple of dogs that have really honest mouths, and they barked cold more than him the last couple of days. I wonder if he had a cold? Do dogs get them? He was acting kinda sluggish around the house for about a week.

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RunninHard
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by RunninHard »

I have noticed when the powdery snow is fresh (only a few days old) mine run fine but if its a week old then I have to solo them and tracking is slower, I feel there is moisture in the newer snow and the older the snow the less moisture in it , wind, low low night temps seems to "crystallize" the snow (like dry ice), just my 2 cents

NorWester1
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by NorWester1 »

Brushhog wrote,
His cold nose nose has slacked off, and he is really producing the rabbits. I don't understand how you add more of the crappy snow, and he kinda comes out of it. I have a couple of dogs that have really honest mouths, and they barked cold more than him the last couple of days.
No....... his cold nose hasn't slacked off, it is "hauling the mail" for you. The conditions are crappy enough he doesn't bark on a colder track now......because he can't smell them, so he only calls on the hot tracks.
You're honest mouth dogs aren't barking on cold tracks either... they are barking on hot tracks. They just don't have the nose power your other dog does so it sounds like they are cold tracking.
Chances are if the conditions were any worse your honest mouth dogs wouldn't bark at all and then you'd only have one dog that can run a rabbit.

Hunting in Winter 101

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Haire-Bear
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by Haire-Bear »

got one of those big nosed and more often than not big mouthed male, but HE can run in the dry powder. That's what saves him.

Nwr 1- nice bawl mouthed hound! Sounds like he was carrying the the mail and the post man! Campbell

deerhost
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Location: New York

Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by deerhost »

Norwester....Nice Video!!!! Nice hound work. Deerhost

brush_hog
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Location: SC Pennsylvania

Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by brush_hog »

Thanks for the insight fellows, I appreciate it. It makes more sense now. After seeing that video Norwester, I'll stop bellyaching. That was amazing footage. It is also unthinkable to run in those temps. Those are impressive hounds. Thanks again.

NorWester1
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by NorWester1 »

Glad you enjoyed the video guys.
That particular day the dogs pleasantly surprised me. With the cool over night temps I didn't think we would be able to do much even though it warmed considerably.
Here's another clip. Caught two hares on the video, the pack was running a third that headed in the opposite direction. Zebo, a young hound got split from the pack and had a hell of time with this hare.
The conditions seemed much better than in the previous clip, BUT......... things aren't always as they seem.
Zebo never did do anything with this track and shortly after harked back in with the rest of his family.
In the clip I think I mention the hare was within 25 feet of Zebo before it moved but it was probably closer than that, maybe 15 feet.
Zebo behaves like he is barking on a cold track...... walking it out, but we KNOW it's hot, that hare is right there in front of him but he can't do much with it :???:

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Jakeboy
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by Jakeboy »

Nice videos norwester!! Now those are tough running conditions. The one hound with the screaming bawl mouth sounds awsome it dam near makes the hair on your neck stand up. Nice work.

Budd
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by Budd »

Norwester1, I never get tiered of listening to that first video, I hope to have a pack that can run in those conditions one day, good job bro ;).

NorWester1
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by NorWester1 »

C'mon now Bud, you know darn well ya can't run more than one or two hounds in cold, deep snow :roll: :lol:

Jakeboy wrote,
The one hound with the screaming bawl mouth sounds awsome it dam near makes the hair on your neck stand up. Nice work.
That would be Cricket. She's a yearling or thereabouts off Three Jays Jack's Commander & Rolling Hills Samantha. Here's another clip, it's the same run as the first video but about 25 minutes earlier.
I didn't catch the hare on the clip but saw her out of the corner of my eye and intercepted the line to video the pack as they came thru.
Not too hard to pick Cricket out of a crowd ;)

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Budd
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by Budd »

NorWester1 wrote:C'mon now Bud, you know darn well ya can't run more than one or two hounds in cold, deep snow :roll: :lol:
I know better ;), and will have some day.

RiverBottom
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Re: Rough running on powdery snow/ question

Post by RiverBottom »

Good videos NorWester, some of the best pack work I've seen posted for our kind of conditions. Couple points for you, just to make conversation :twisted:

We have days here when the dogs running behind the leaders don't have anything to run. In fact, I can count on one hand the dogs I've seen that can run at all, even alone on those days and still have fingers left over. When the third and fourth place dogs are barking I consider it to be a good day for scent. I've never seen a pack, 4 or more, that can run together on the worst days. Not just follow along but actualy do more good than harm. Have you?

When Zebo was running alone it seemed he could smell the hare just fine when he was on the track. The conditions could not have been that bad. Again, on the worst days here, my best dogs have much more trouble even getting enough scent to open on than young Zebo was having. When I see my dogs run a track like Zebo did in the video (which happens way too often) I don't believe lack of nose is the problem. In Zebo's case I would say it's lack of experience. Another 1000 hours of running hare and he should make a pretty good dog.
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