The American Beagler Forum

OK, Here is why I ask this Question. I know of two young hounds at our local club that the owners had high hopes for running in LP. WIth the height rule enforcement looming over us now, how many of these hounds are we going to see for sale that are a solid 1/4" over. If there is atleast two at our club that are 1/4" over there must be more at other clubs too. So what will people do? Yea, I have this great hound for but he/she is to big to trial! Do you sell them as gun dogs or try to sell them to some one that runs a different format, or will people just keep them to hunt with themselves or will people cull?? Tough questions and I am sure that each will have to answer them for themselves. I have one that is to big.. Like 16+" to big. Have I sold him? No!! He has good hunt, jumps his share of rabbits, Runs a good track, has great endurance, is good in the kennel, and loves the gun. He has always been honest with what he runs, and seams to have a decient nose for tough conditions. Why would most of us want to sell what we see as a good hound, other than they will not measure. Will be interesting to see how many are listed in the Sale forum on here and for sale localy. Brock

The answer to your question is all of the above.

Some guys only trial and have no use for a dog that measures out so they will sell the dog to whoever wants it whether that be a hunter or someone that may try to get the dog into a different format. Others love to hunt also and will hang on to the dog if it's good enough to keep around as just an old rabbit dog.

I say we grind them all up and serve them for lunch at the world hunt

The ones that are a solid quarter inch over? they will still run. I don't think this needs any explanation.

Gun hunt the snot out of them.

BG BEAGLER wrote:I say we grind them all up and serve them for lunch at the world hunt

but Matt there wont be any one there as thats all little pack is over sized swinging like a pack of monkeys dogs
so now little packk is gonna die die i tell ya die

i suspect the "bar" will be "raised" at many clubs.

Not likely but hopefully guys will keep some of them, let some go to rabbit hunters and then breed dogs that fit the breed standard.

barryc wrote:then breed dogs that fit the breed standard.

There's a lot of people on here claiming that people are breeding oversized dogs on purpose. There are probalby are a few, but most oversized dogs are just healthy dogs. When you breed a 14 3/4" male to a 13" female and get a 15 1/2" dog. You were breeding to fit the standard, but it didn't turn out that way. Some are just naturally big or just freaks of nature. Out of 20-something dogs, I only have one that goes over at 15 3/4". I can promise that he wasn't "bred" to be that way. All his littermates are under 14". It's a shame more people won't get to see him go, because I think he's a special dog and will hunt him. I hate it for those that are limited in the number of dogs they can have because of zoning, space, budget, etc. They can put a lot of money and time into a pup and have it go over, then have nothing to trial for another year, which hurts getting new members into a club. Not many people are as lucky as me where they can keep an insane number of hounds, and have a wife that puts up with it.

I recently gave away a pup that had a ton of potential with 2 outstanding parents. Sire 14-3/4 dam 14-1/2 pup grew to 16-1/2 and still going. Would I have entered him into a trial, NO but would I have kept him to just hunt yes if I wasn't limited on how many dogs I could keep.

As long as they use the Standard of NATURAL STANCE owners will teach their hounds to naturally slouch...... not saying iots right..... but tritronics can make dogs stoop awful low

I personally dont see the sense in getting rid of a dog if you really like it just because you cant put it in any field trials, that is rediculous. If that dog impresses you if that dogs makes you happy keep him and run him for rabbit season and anytime you want to just go out to listen to them run. Dont get rid of him just because he is a little to big to trial thats ludacris!

i dont know but at r club 15 1/4 wont make the cut

hookset wrote:

barryc wrote:then breed dogs that fit the breed standard.

There's a lot of people on here claiming that people are breeding oversized dogs on purpose. There are probalby are a few, but most oversized dogs are just healthy dogs. When you breed a 14 3/4" male to a 13" female and get a 15 1/2" dog. You were breeding to fit the standard, but it didn't turn out that way. Some are just naturally big or just freaks of nature. Out of 20-something dogs, I only have one that goes over at 15 3/4". I can promise that he wasn't "bred" to be that way. All his littermates are under 14". It's a shame more people won't get to see him go, because I think he's a special dog and will hunt him. I hate it for those that are limited in the number of dogs they can have because of zoning, space, budget, etc. They can put a lot of money and time into a pup and have it go over, then have nothing to trial for another year, which hurts getting new members into a club. Not many people are as lucky as me where they can keep an insane number of hounds, and have a wife that puts up with it.

Hook,

I agree a 100% there are freaks that go over just like you said even when all their litter mates did not. I have one of them to and I wish people could see him in a trial he is pretty amazing but I believe in the breed standard and refuse to put him in hunts by mocking the 15" height limit. He is over and I know it and it would be unfair to a true 15" dog, I have pleasure hunted him with many and it is an advantage. I love the dog! he will die at my house and I will continue to gun hunt him and breed him but when I do it is to true 13" bitches. I feel that it is my responsibility to do what I can to not produce more oversize dogs. Yes, some will come out 13" but I have yet to have one out of him go over 15", I get both sizes but at least I'm doing everything in my power to not produce more dogs that do not meet the standards that have been in place for years. I just think that if a lot of guys were a little more careful and planned their breeding's better we could easily eliminate a lot of the oversize dogs that are bred out of carelessness.

It sounds to me like you have things figured out and are mindful of these things when making a breeding. I just feel like there are a lot of guys that do not.

We don't live in a perfect world where everything works out exactly like you expect it too, but if the standards are not upheld it will become progressively worse.

I feel bad for those of you that can't "get over it".

I run 13" females, have bred and owned numerous dogs and never had one go over 15". Have had several go over 13", but if you pay attention you can tell by 4-6 months old with pretty high accuracy if they will be over 13". Pretty sure the same goes for the 15" hounds. You definately dont need to put a full year on a dog to know. If "size doesn't matter" then breed 13" dogs and you wont have to worry about getting dogs that go over 15".

Mybeagles