The American Beagler Forum

In case you have not heard, there is going to be a Willet Randall Memorial Cup/NBPPA Sectional trial and show, November 5, 2011 hosted by the New Empire Beagle Club in Buffalo, NY. It would be "fitting" if a Patch Hound brought that particular win home.

Buffalo NY ???

Adirondacks I could go for...

Sounds great,any ph,no?

Excellent!

Excuse my ignorance, but what is NBPPA?
Which day will the big females run?

I just found out my trial in our NY plant is postponed 1 week, which means I am probably going to miss the first weekend of my Island trip.
And since I am leaving the Sunday prior, I will get those 3 days back which I can hopefully use for a Baffalo trip.

Maybe Chuck, aka Reddog, is free that weekend and we can make the trip together since he would be right on my way.
Or maybe he could stay at the island one more week and we could have the hounds really tuned up and ready to go that weekend!

I do agree with Charles though, it really should be in the Adirondacks.

Swamp

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.ph ... did=452866

Just a reminder that NEW EMPIRE BEAGLE CLUB, of Buffalo NY, will be hosting this first time event on Nov 5th 2011.. The winners of the registered, champions, grand champions and best of winners bench show, will be invited to a 1hour pp cup pack, and the winner to walk away with the Willet Randall Gold Cup!

This trial and show is also a NBPPA Sectional event!

In the up coming weeks, I will post weather reports, Judging list, and local information as well as running conditions..

Come enjoy this first of a kind event, in honor of the late Willet Randall and his patch hounds, and enjoy the Nickle City and Niagara Falls!

Ricky G

http://newempirebeagleclub.webs.com/

Club President, Rick Giermata
GREAT CLUB!!!!
GREAT PEOPLE!!!
GREAT FOOD!!!
Plenty of Running!!
What more could ya ask??

I wish that I could make that trip but seeing that I work in the firearms department at Gander and they let me have the 3 weeks to go to the Island just before our busy season asking for that weekend would be pushing it a little.

Maybe if they have it next year I can plan ahead and make it but for now I will be content with my 3 weeks with great friends and great hounds

So the hounds have to be UKC registered?
Is the trial in the wild, cottontail or snowshoe?

Swamp

“THE NATIONAL BEAGLE PERFORMANCE PACK ASSOCIATION” hereafter referred to as the “NBPPA”
Membership dues $20.

Looks like a UKC event. I don't have any UKC registered.

Anybody see what kinda hound they look for? Steve and Marshall got UKC and know the rules of a UKC hunt but I don't if this is any different type or not. They had to call out their own hounds during a hunt to get score. I think you gotta know the rules and be fairly outspoken.
They said they gotta be on a marked line and not running the high scent drifting, that gonna be tough...

This will be a UKC preformence pack hunt. I will pm Rick G and have him post on this hunt.

Dave

Charles, I used to run the U.K.C.trials and I did well in them. There is a hunting judge that also has a dog in the trial but the cast must agree on where the hounds will be scored when the rabbit comes through.
Any U.K.C. trial that I was in was in the wild never in a pen always in the wild.
The cast must run for 2 hours and can only be scored twice on the same rabbit.
I liked these trials because the hounds were scored on speed and drive and also hunt. (first dog to open on a rabbit got 100 pionts) It was like accual hunting or pretty much the way we run on the Island. You just have to really know your dog.

Also in U.K.C. You can single register a hound at the trial.

Foregive me if I have miss spoke or have any of the rules wrong, It's been a long time since I have participated in a trial.


reddog

hey chuck this is deja vu I will not be able to make it this year but next year i will be able to make it. Anybody up for a road trip ?????? I do have family in Johnstown new york which is about 4 hours away that would let us set up camp for a week or so . Thanks cojax

What do you do after you score a rabbit twice? look for another? I never been hunting like that unless your calling it fair game to shoot after the second circle...
Seems like a good buck rabbit could give you 2 hrs of scoring, if even you can get a cast to stay on the same rabbit.
I still like the idea of going up to North Creek, I think that fellow at the canoe shop would let us run.

I believe the drive from that trial to the “Adirondacks” is about 4 hours. Just for the history and experience, if I was going to go to the trial, I would add an extra day and head up to where it all began.

My buddies Mike Oszust and Jim Lane had an interesting thing happen to them. Because both their websites give a little special tribute to the old “Yellow Creek”, they had a lady that googled “Yellow Creek” and LM Watson. She found a picture on their sites that she recognized. She had a larger version of it hanging on her wall along with others and contacted Jim and Mike. The lady ended up being Watson’s granddaughter. Through her they were able to get in contact with other family members and artifacts of LM Watson. Unfortunately none of them had any dogs, but lots of photos and information.

I said that to say this, because of my health I was forced to let my dogs go and purely live through others and the magazines that I read, especially the “old” stories of the hounds and houndsman of the past. In my opinion, it really doesn’t get any better or more interesting than the “Patch” and “Yellow Creek” stories and histories.

I just finished a story by Ray Libby concerning Willet and the Patch Hounds. In that particular story it names several men such as Ralph Butz, FB Zimmer, Dr. Mac Elroy, Lee Somerville, the Farringtons, Harry Morse, Frank Phillips, Bill Wagner, Ray Haley, Bill Paul and others. All of these men had something to do with the Patch line one way or the other and some lived around where you fellows are talking about going. Surely some of these guys had children/grandchildren that may have some unseen history, photos, artifacts and if your real lucky… hounds that derived from way back when.

Of course some of you hard core Patch guys may have already explored all these avenues, but if you haven’t, I would make a road trip of it and check out and run where it all started, just for the experience. Believe me fellows when I say this, time flies and before you know it you will be in my shoes, old with failing health and just able to read about it, but I do have some great memories stored. Just a thought.

PS- That Ray Libby story? He stated Patch was sold for $600.00 in 1916 and with the avg. annual inflation from then to now being about 3.27%, that would be like paying around $13,000.00 for a hound today, except it was during hard times when people were eating sawdust gravy, bean soup and walking 5 miles to school with holes in the bottom of their shoes etc... And... Willet still got unlimited lifetime breeding rights for free. Interesting stuff!

Swampman wrote:Excellent!

Excuse my ignorance, but what is NBPPA?
Which day will the big females run?
Swamp

NBPPA is the National Beagle Performance Pack Assoc.
the trial will be held under the UKC performance pack Rules
it Dont matter how Fast or Slow your hound is as long as it can Toe the LINE and run it Accurately
Fellas this is a Fantastic Club and I promise ya Wont get treated no better or more fairly anywhere else!!If ya Dont have Fun then is your Own Fault!!
Ol Ricky G will make sure of this
A lot of history in this area and some of the areas that they are run are places that the Earlier AKC club in the area also ran
Here are the Running Rules for UKC PP

FORMAT
The basic premise of the Performance Pack events
is an elimination style event that advances all cast
winners. All dogs will run in a 60 minute cast and
each cast winner will advance to subsequent
rounds. Rounds shall be referred to as round 1,
round 2, round 3 etc. First round winners shall
advance to the second round. Second round winners
shall advance to the third round etc. until a
winner is determined in each category.
If for any reason a cast does not complete the
hunting time, no dog will advance to subsequent
rounds from that cast.



Strike:
A strike is when a dog opens three or more
times while free cast in the field. Once the
first dog is struck, time is to be kept on the
dog. Once the judge determines that the
rabbit is produced, the first struck dog is to
receive 20+ points. All other dogs struck
before the rabbit is produced will receive 10
+ points. If no rabbit is produced within the
four minutes, strike points for all struck dogs
to be scored as minus. First struck dog to
receive 20–, all other struck to receive 10–.
If the judge cannot determine who the first
struck dog is, they are to assign 10 points to
all struck dogs before the rabbit is produced.
Strike points may only be awarded
once per rabbit. After the 4 minutes are up
and no rabbit is jumped, the judge shall
instruct the handler to catch the dog for
recasting. No strike points will be awarded
if a rabbit is inadvertently jumped by a cast
member, spectator or a judge. No strike
points will be awarded in the case of putting
dogs on a track. No strike points will be
awarded while any handler is making an
attempt to catch a dog. If a hound is struck
and for any reason quits the track that they
are struck in on within the 4 minutes, they
will be minused their strike points. The
hound will then be caught and the cast will
move to another area. Once a hound is
struck, they are to be given the entire 4 minutes
to work their track. However if another
hound jumps the rabbit the judge may
request that the struck in hound be moved
into the dog(s) running the rabbit. In the
case of catching a rabbit, the dog that
catches the rabbit will receive 20+
strike. No points are to be allowed on a
nest of baby rabbits. If a dog strike in the
last four minutes of the hunt and time
expires without a produced track, their
points are to be deleted.

Checks:
A check is defined as “when it is evident that
there is an obvious breakdown in the forward
progress of the chase or a hound shows
accurate direction of the track.” There is
no measurement of a check in feet or time, it
is when the judge determines that there is an
obvious breakdown or a hound shows
accurate direction of the track. A hound
does not have to cease barking in the check
area, for it to be considered a check. If it is
evident that no hound is making forward
progress on the line, then it is considered a
check. In order for a recovery to be awarded,
a hound must make forward progress
and give mouth. When working a check, a
dog should work from the “inside out”. They
should work closely in the immediate area of
the check and they gradually work outward
to regain the track. If the judge determines
that the track has ended in a hole or that the
dogs have completely lost the rabbit, they are
to announce that the track is “dead”. All
dogs are to be caught for recasting
the rest of the Rules can be Found here
http://www.ukcdogs.com/res/pdf/2011BeaglePP.pdf