Shout Out to Trialers

[Bobby Vest]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point on trialing. There are trials for every style Beagle you can think of. You still have the slow walking Traditional Brace trials, and you have middle speed dogs that have to contribute to the pack in the Northeast SPO and you have the faster the blistering speed trials. I guarantee you gun hunters can find a format some where that suits you if you want to trial them. I also promise you there are some people trialing the fast hounds that still have great hunt, you just have to find them. The dog that can win a trial when the scenting is up and the running is good may not have a chance on the tough days. Abshire and I have talked many times about what Lynn Perkins Buzzsaw dog could do to a pack when scenting was a little off. I have gun hunted most of my life and will as long as I can walk but I still like to see them in a trial every once in a while.

[bodetis]

last time i checked this was american beagler, not american trialer! in response that trials are the reason 4 websites!

[bucks better beagles]

'The Beagler' is a message board forum designed for open discussion among Beagle Field Trialers, Rabbit Hunters or anyone who just enjoys "The Hound of Music"! So says the mast head.

[bucks better beagles]

I think when I phrased the poll, I should have clarified what I meant by "centerpiece": I meant it to be an item or issue intended to be the focus of attention, as in the beautiful bouquet of flowers that is the centerpiece of the table. What could be our centerpiece if it is not the trials? Surely, any individual dog could never stand out as a central focus. Neither could killing lots of rabbits with a dog. It has to be the trials. As a group, they are our success story.

[pineridgebeagles]

The centerpiece to me is everything blending together on the table not just the center,good dogs ,good friends,good food and your son or grandsons first rabbit.Al

[Steve Mikkelson]

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[tom summers]

When I stated that We would not have websites may have been misunderstood. The website IS for every format hunters and trialers. I feel they came as a result of trialing , stud dogs reults etc. but are used and appreciated by ALL. As I stated I hunt and train FAR more than I trial but truly love the trials when i do attend.

[BLACKBART]

VOTED, YES GOOD QUESTION
BUT WITH RESERVATIONS. A TRUE RABBIT DOG MUST PROVE ITSELF, NOT ONLY AS A TRIAL HOUND BUT AS A TRUE RABBIT DOG. I BELIEVE THAT ALL FORMATS WERE
STARTED BY MEN WHO TRULEY WANTED TO PROMOTE THE ULTIMATE RABBIT DOG ACCORDING TO THERE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT WAS. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT WANTS A DESIRES IN A DOG, SO I FULLY RESPECT ALL TRIALERS, BUT DON'T LOOSE THE FACT THAT SOME BACK WOODS HUNTERS GOT TO GATHER TO ESTABLISE EACH
TYPE OF TRIAL FORMAT. AND THIS WAS GOOD, BUT LIKE ALL THINGS CONTAMINATED IN THIS WORLD, THE POLLUTION OF MONEY MOVED IN, AND THE TRUE TEST OF A
DOG BECAME BIASE.
EXAMPLE-- AKC TRIAL, RICHMOND KY. WATCHED BIG FEMALES COMPETE, BY FAR IN MY JUDGEMENT THE BEST DOG WON, AND THE JUDGES BROUGHT HER BACK WINNER.
DOGS WERE THEN MEASURED, AND SHE WAS MEASURED OUT, ALTHOUGH GUY HAD TO PUT HIS HAND UNDER HER BELLY AND PUSH HER UP, BUT IF ALL WERE DONE THIS WAY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAIR. OWNER NOT WELL KNOWN, JUST A HUNTER WITH NO RESPECT IN AKC. 2ND FEMALE WAS MOVED UP TO WIN. DOGS STOOD SIDE BY SIDE AND SECOND FEMALE WAS 1 TO 1 AND 1HALF INCH TALLER, BUT COULD NOT BE MEASURED BECAUSE SHE WAS OFFICIALLY MEASURED. LEFT THIS HUNT VERY DISSULITIONED.FOUND OUT LATER SECOND FEMALE BELONGED TO A BIG NAME BREEDED, AND A OFFICIAL AND OFFICER IN AKC. HAD WENT TO WATCH 2ND FEMALE AND TO MEET OWNER AS I WAS EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN HIS LINE OF DOGS. LEFT HAVING LOST ALL RESPECT FOR OWNER AND LINE OF DOGS, AND DECIDED THAT THE MOST PROMOTED LINE OF DOGS OR MEN A NOT ALWAYS THE BEST. BOYS WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO IT WITH HONESTY AND INTEGRETY. LAUGH IF YOU WANT TO, BUT I COULD
NOT HAVE WALKED AWAY THAT DAY AS THE WINNER KNOWING I WAS BEATEN BY A BETTER DOG, AS I WOULD HAVE WAN'T THE TRUE WINNER TO WIN OR I WOULD HAVE WITH DRAWN MY HOUND.
SPORTSMANSHIP OR MONEY, MORALES OR MONEY, HONESTY OR MONEY.
ASK YOURSELVES WHAT TRULY MOTIVATES ME.
ONE COUNTRY MUSIC SINGER SANG, YOU HAVE TO STAND FOR SOMETHING OR YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
IT IS WRITTEN THAT MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.
DON'T BE INSNARED BY IT.

[jim matuszewski]

It's the breeder to me. Anyone can breed two hounds. But having the talent to line breed is hard work. I would like to know how many fc are line breed?

this is a great question, for sure because of feild trials it gives you the appertunity to breed to the the best stud that you think is out there,one of the biggest breeders of beagles is branko and they are loose to tight line breeding for along time now,with great results. line breeding is the tool that started the current hound we have,and my worrys are that guys going out to breed to the flavor of the month in the long run is not going to be good for thr breed. in my humble oppinion the beagle is were it's at today ,because of old school line breeding and culling ruthlessly to get the results that your looking for

[likeemfast]

I closed my 1st reply that for those Trialers that are doing it right keep on doing so. I am no where near kennel blind. I will run my hounds with whoever wants to run with mine. I can tell you their faults before i put them on the ground. My complaint is GOOD OLD FASHIONED HUNT is not bred into hounds like it should be. Size and speed are the 2 easiest things to breed into hounds. These are the 2 easiest things for a Trialer or Gunner to breed into their hounds along with a hound that can run a rabbit. If good old fashioned hunt is being bred into hounds then we as houndsmen are failing badly. Why are true jump dogs so hard to find? Take a look at Better Beagling magazine cover with the hounds running the rabbit. Now i am a fan of the magazine but there is one hound on that cover that looks like it is actually running the rabbit and 20 others running like heck all around it doing nothing. I bet that picture was taken at a trial, not a rabbit hunt. As the saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words." The guys who years ago kept hounds to put food on the table, and hunted as a way of life to support a family, didnt keep a lot of the crap that is being run at trials. BANG, gone!!! I am a gun hunter, but ive had the pleasure of owning a complete hound that did it with ease day in and out, spring, summer, winter, fall, and i didnt have to be a trialer to see it. We all have our opinions of a hound but i dont believe you have to see 1000 hounds in a year to know what a good hound is. How many of those 1000 hounds will become FC? More than the majority of them will just be hounds that run in trials and thats it.

[Pete Tuck]

I voted for number 4. I started beagling in 1991. I started trailing in 1992. I knew I was hooked on trials after the very first one. I hunted grade dogs until around 2005. I had 4 dogs that made field champion in ARHA. All 4 dogs were very good, but once they started getting old I would try to get pups off of them and to be honest I never got a pup that was worth a dern. In 2005 I knew I had to do something to help me kill rabbits and also compete in field trials. Being new to the registered dogs I counted on a few good friends to help me determine the route I wanted to go. After watching dogs go at field trials and talking to a lot of people I decided that I liked a few bloodlines and I was able acquire a few pups. These dogs are fast, but with above average to reall good line control. In my kennel right now I have a male off of Crabtree's Reject dog, thanks to Hounddog, I also have a male from Lynn Perkins, that is a grandson to Buzzsaw, and the other two are Pine Mt. Chester/ T-Rex crosses. All of them are really good hunting dogs, and can compete in the trials. Without the field trials and really good friends helping me out I would not be where I am today with my dogs. I have seen some dogs at field trials that I never would have known about if I didn't trial. One other dog that I was impressed with at a trial was Chad Blair's Dusty dog, and I am looking forward to getting a pup from him in September. So I do think trials are very important to the beagle world.

[bucks better beagles]

Some of you are saying that there are field champions out there that just aren't deserving, though you don't give names or reasons. We can speak generically about anything. I always heard it said that the devil could interpret the bible to prove his own points. I wish you could be more specific because it seems that if a dog goes up against multiple dogs on multiple occasions and wins, then he should be deserving. All the judges can't be crooked or the dog gets lucky each time. I have even heard references to drugs made but I have never in my life known anyone that used drugs on a field trial dog or even heard it mentioned. Is it just sour grapes, jealousy, or some sort of reverse condescension? Just asking.

I admire and respect the trial boys and would like to understand why some don't give them their kudos. The same type of generic speak is showing up in my other thread about "real or money made...." but I don't want to post this parley twice.

[likeemfast]

Buck, you can have a FC that could not start a rabbit if you put it in a barrel with said FC. I am not a Trialer as i have stated many times, but have spoken to some judges and some of them said they give hounds points for hunt and others said they dont even look at hunt. Is a FC that has no hunt a betterment of the Breed? I sure hope you dont think it is. We all have our place in Beagling, but no way in heck are Trialers the Centerpiece of Beagling. Pete Tuck spoke he was better off in beagling cause of TRIALING because hes met people and bettered his pack. Well i met Mike Crabtree about 10yrs ago with my dad, just a couple dumb gunhunters. He sold us a very good quality gundog and if he called me tomorrow and said he had another one for me i would be there to get it. Although i dont know him that well i know from my dealing with him hes a quality guy who sells what he describes, not someone who describes something he wishes he had to sell. Ive purchased off Dean Biscamp from TX, another quality individual who i would purchase off of anytime again. I spoke with him not too long ago and he told me he dont have anything right now fast enough to suit me.(HONESTY, go figure) Ive had Branko bred hounds, hounds of Dick Doyle and many other Trialers and Gunhunters, some good some bad, from New York to South Carolina to Missouri and many places in between. Just a plain old Kennel Blind Dumb Gunhunter who never sees a hound outside of his backyard. Wow go figure, and a lot of those places i went i didnt have a GARMIN to show me how to get there or back home. ME, just a gunhunter, found his way there and back without help, can you imagine that???

The CENTERPIECE OF BEAGLING is not Trialers or the GUNHUNTERS, its the Breeders of the Quality hounds, the guys that do it over and over and over. Its not the ONE HIT WONDERS, its the guys who their names are well known and we all wish we could get one of their pups to try, or could afford one of their finished hounds. Has Trialing made the Great Hounds easier for all to see or read about? I think YES is the answer to that, but give credit where its due and its to the guys who BREED with success or have the hounds who are GREAT REPRODUCERS. Hounds you could hunt with today and Field Trail tomorrow and they can hunt and run their own rabbit without help. Without them we would all be carrying Tally HO Brush Beating sticks trying to scare a rabbit for our hounds to run.

[bucks better beagles]

But Likem, Aren't you describing the same animal when you say the "breeders" are the centerpiece? The people you describe are all trialers of some sort or another who also breed good dogs with the type of hunt you like. I would also posit that they breed to well known FC whose pedigrees produces. I am just like you. I like to get a pup from a reputable man with a reputable breeding history. Almost always, there is a FC real close in that pup's history.

[likeemfast]

Buck, I named the guys i name because i figure you would know of them and i consider them honest gentlemen and beaglers. My point is dont think a gunhunter does not get around to see dogs go, as some have stated. When you want the best you can get wether your a Trialer or a Gunhunter you go get it and give it a try. Hasnt anyone ever recommended a Steak house to you that you went and tried and its good every time you go? Because it was better and more consistent than other places does that make it the Centerpiece of the STEAK WORLD??? I think it makes it a Steak House that buys a consistent piece of meat and knows how to prepare it, unlike the restaurant that buys from whoever is cheaper and sometimes its good cheaper and other times its bad cheaper. The consistent suppliers, wether they trial, gunhunt, or sell beef are the foundation. A Field Champion granted is a FC BECAUSE THEY EARNED THE TITLE,(by running a rabbit) it does not mean they know how to find a rabbit, or just cause their a FC does not mean they are going to produce a FC. Dont think there are gunhunters who dont produce good hounds either. Most of these successful breeds were rabbit hounds first, trial hounds second. The popularity of trialing makes them known as trial worthy hounds even tho they were rabbit hounds first. A good gundog hound is a good trial hound, a good trial hound is not necessarily a good gundog hound.