The complete hound

[South Woods kennel]

bullshit you dogs cant hit 20 mph, my german shorthair cant even hit that.... not trying to start anythig but i think thats a lie..

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, Against my better judgment I read one of your posts due to the fact that it was so short. You are confused. Remember all of your other statements when you can't see , hear , smell, taste or have any evidence of anything at all ( such as your statements concerning biologists breeding better beagles without one example to show or to prove it to anyone at anytime) Than the thing does exist according to you! Biologists that are capable of breeding better beagles than all but the serious breeders are out there according to you but none have ever done it! You say it is because it is because they have certain equipment and such things available to them that beaglers don't but then you say they are not better than some breeders , why not? why are they not better than the serious breeders, as you have stated and how do we know who the serious breeders are? Fact of the matter is biologists have not created better beagles than the backyard breeders have , If so just name them, That is what I thought! Oh but you are sure they can and the evidence is? just what I thought! How about just boiling it down and just answering one question without getting Pissy, I am not doing so, I am just asking questions and pointing out where you have contradicted yourself. Here is the Question . You have stated that Biologists and the sort are not better than the serious beagler at producing better beagles This is your statement Can you tell us why they are not better at this than the serious breeder. This is your statement just asking for you to back it up! Once again no need to get Pissy.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Mo Beagler, Against my better judgment I read one of your posts due to the fact that it was so short. You are confused. Remember all of your other statements when you can't see , hear , smell, taste or have any evidence of anything at all ( such as your statements concerning biologists breeding better beagles without one example to show or to prove it to anyone at anytime) Than the thing does exist according to you! Biologists that are capable of breeding better beagles than all but the serious breeders are out there according to you but none have ever done it! You say it is because it is because they have certain equipment and such things available to them that beaglers don't but then you say they are not better than some breeders , why not? why are they not better than the serious breeders, as you have stated and how do we know who the serious breeders are? Fact of the matter is biologists have not created better beagles than the backyard breeders have , If so just name them, That is what I thought! Oh but you are sure they can and the evidence is? just what I thought! How about just boiling it down and just answering one question without getting Pissy, I am not doing so, I am just asking questions and pointing out where you have contradicted yourself. Here is the Question . You have stated that Biologists and the sort are not better than the serious beagler at producing better beagles This is your statement Can you tell us why they are not better at this than the serious breeder. This is your statement just asking for you to back it up! Once again no need to get Pissy.

I actually have no idea what you just said or asked... honestly I would answer it if I could but I don't know what your actually asking.. Seriously I am not making it up either. I truly think you mis quoted me because I said that biologists (specifically geneticists, vets and biology professors know more about breeding than most breeders do....I also said that hardly anyone studies beagle traits because there isn't money in it or research dollars given out for it...

You want proof HERE IT IS!!

MISSION STATEMENT
The Mission of the National Beagle Club Health and Genetics Committee is to enhance beagle health and welfare by identifying health issues, promoting selected research studies, increasing the utilization of screening tests for breeding stock, and providing ongoing educational opportunities.
Taken directly from the NATIONAL AKC BEAGLE CLUB WEBSITE>....

http://clubs.akc.org/NBC/health_genetics.html

Now please leave me alone unless you want to apologize or have another "serious" question....

Here is some other links if you want them. Most of them are just for fun..
http://www.doggenetics.com/
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/cghg/
http://www.genomeweb.com/akcs-17m-fundi ... d-research
http://discovermagazine.com/2003/apr/featscienceof
http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... c-dog.html

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

If you can read this document and tell me with a straight face science does not help the breed then there is no hope for you..

It spells out scientifically everything I have been trying so eloquently to say... If tis good enough for serious breeders, its good enough for me

http://clubs.akc.org/NBC/Bell%20Handout%20-%20NBC.pdf

[dog]

Some things never change. Dont think anyone knows , if so why isnt the beagle any better as a whole than it was 75 yrs ago

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Some things never change. Dont think anyone knows , if so why isnt the beagle any better as a whole than it was 75 yrs ago

You didn't read the article or look at the website did you?

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, I don't doubt that you dont have any idea what I am asking. and If you think I mis-quoted you than why don't you go back to page four where you stated these folks know more about these traits than all but the serious breeders. You said it ,it is there. I asked what should be a very easy question I asked why is it that the crowd that you tout so highly does not know more than the serious breeders as YOU have stated. After you answer that, we can then move on to who the serious breeders are in your opinion! Perhaps after that we can run some of your Labratory beagles against some of mine just for fun, Oh, wait there aren't any labratory beagles to run! Same as there isn't a tooth fairy, Sorry to have to break it to you!

[MPankratz]

I'm afraid there isn't a lot of scientific work being done on improving the field performance of beagles. That doesn't mean that it can't be done successfully, it's just not exactly an area of high interest. There is certainly proof that there is work being done on genetically modified beagles, however. Consider Tegon:


She's not under a green light in that photo, either. She's under a UV lamp which causes her to fluoresce green, because she was genetically modified with a gene that causes her to produce a protein called eGFP (enhanced Green Fluorescent Protein) but only when she's been given the antibiotic drug Doxycycline. You'll see a lot of articles published where they've made an animal that glows. Sometimes it's just a show of capability, but usually that glowing is second to something more interesting (like in this case, the ability to use a drug to turn a gene on).

genetics today seems to be computers in 1975. Not quite ready for the big stage, but getting real close. We already have people biohacking in their garages.

I'm not sure what the argument is about exactly. It seems to be about whether scientists can breed a faster beagle, right?

What kind of science? Are you talking about genetically modifying the beagle to produce a faster dog or scientific breeding, as defined here:

Animal breeding is a branch of animal science that addresses the evaluation (using best linear unbiased prediction and other methods) of the genetic value (estimated breeding value, EBV) of domestic livestock. Selecting animals for breeding with superior EBV in growth rate, egg, meat, milk, or wool production, or have other desirable traits has revolutionized agricultural livestock production throughout the world. The scientific theory of animal breeding incorporates population genetics, quantitative genetics, statistics, and recently molecular genomics and is based on the pioneering work of Sewall Wright, Jay Lush, and Charles Henderson.

If it's the latter, I'd say yes. But it wouldn't take a scientist to do this. Any knowledgeable breeder could apply these ideas, carefully collect data and make breeding decisions based on that.

Really, this is essentially what breeders are already doing, though I don't think many collect the data (like weight, length, height at birth and at various points as the dog grows [to determine growth rate], how fast the dog could run, how much time it spent sniffing, whatever metrics would be most valuable) and then use that data to make future breeding decisions. From my understanding, breeding is usually based on what the breeder feels, from observations of the dogs. It would seem that if these observations were systematized and organized to help make these decisions, the probability of success would be greatly improved. This would be hard to do without a substantial operation. I don't think it would be of much, if any, value to someone breeding just occasionally.

[chapkosbeagles]

Jake
Little lad u everyone knows I dont lie about these dog been called out alot and every time one of u boy come out. I send them home convinced as they watch my hound run rabbits tr ill they pic them off the ground. U bet ur ass every sight race is 15 to 20 mph also. Jake my champion coon hound olny roads at about 20 mph also and she is streemline all legs and can strech dogs out. beagles race the car

Just asked anyone who knows me I dont lie about my hounds. They will tell on u every time

I have been keeping a journal for a few years now and this is what made me think about the spped thing as of right now I cant tell a whole lot but dident record high,weight,ext just how the lines crossed. mothers an fathers speed,hunt nose,ext. I will start an more exstencive journal
I also recorded stuff like barometric presure,wind direction ext. I could have 2 days with the same weather an have different runs(could it be what rabbit the dogs run)

Could some rabbits have a stinky gene, and others not kinda like people

so do rabbits smell different to dogs

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Mo Beagler, I don't doubt that you dont have any idea what I am asking. and If you think I mis-quoted you than why don't you go back to page four where you stated these folks know more about these traits than all but the serious breeders. You said it ,it is there. I asked what should be a very easy question I asked why is it that the crowd that you tout so highly does not know more than the serious breeders as YOU have stated. After you answer that, we can then move on to who the serious breeders are in your opinion! Perhaps after that we can run some of your Labratory beagles against some of mine just for fun, Oh, wait there aren't any labratory beagles to run! Same as there isn't a tooth fairy, Sorry to have to break it to you!

Ya, but in the question you posed you used the word NOT... I stand by my original thesis.. And the article I posted and the PDF. Explained EXACTLY how scientists who study genetics know more about the breed.. Its all in the PDF file on how to scientifically choose traits you want and how to get strains out of your dog you don't like for at least 20 different things mentioned in the article.

The reason I said they know more is that they are the ones writing the books on how to breed and serious breeders have picked up on them and are improving the breed for it. Back in the day it was a pure GUESS at what could happen if you crossed two dogs and if you didn't like you shot the dogs and moved on the the next stud or bitch. Right now its no longer a random guess because of these scientists, its more of an extremely educated guess with the ability to test for things in the lab.

You don't have to breed anything to know about genetics or even own a beagle to study beagle DNA and help folks out who do have them. Its ludicrous to think otherwise.

MPankratz-- That was a well thought out response-- Thank You

[dog]

Yes , I read it , maybe i should have said the ones that know dont care and the ones that care dont know. I believe geneticly they could produce the worlds best beagle if they wanted to. in my opinion it will be a sorry day in this world when it happens. to many far more important things going on out there that deserve that attention geneticly. why anyone would waste that time and those resources on a rabbit dog instead of researching all these diseases that people suffer with everyday. its a rabbitdog , if you want better buy it or breed it. The guy down the road is the one that should be trying to improve the rabbit dog not the scientist , that is a waste . agin JMO

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Yes , I read it , maybe i should have said the ones that know dont care and the ones that care dont know. I believe geneticly they could produce the worlds best beagle if they wanted to. in my opinion it will be a sorry day in this world when it happens. to many far more important things going on out there that deserve that attention geneticly. why anyone would waste that time and those resources on a rabbit dog instead of researching all these diseases that people suffer with everyday. its a rabbitdog , if you want better buy it or breed it. The guy down the road is the one that should be trying to improve the rabbit dog not the scientist , that is a waste . agin JMO

I kinda lost interest in the genticly inclined post pages ago, But i do agree that this world needs to concentrate on things there are no cure for as of yet. Millions suffer from illness. My initial thought is this- If i make a cross that eiether has 10 ears or 14 feet a hammer will cure it. The problem is too many think too much for a quick fix in there breeding program. As far as i am concerned. There is no fix only trial and error when trying to do your best too exceed in breeding, Branko and Monk as well as many others are on too something and i dont believe it was a college education. Some get the big picture and some dont. People didnt just get smart.

[gwyoung]

mPpakrantz. I understand there are scientists working on genes and genetically modifying such and we all know about DNA work and so forth. everyone knows that , don't have to be a Biology teacher to know. We just don't know all that SOME people claim and no evidence can be produced to support it. let take something Billions of Dollars and the highest of interest goes into. The curing of Cancer, much of which is believed to be inherited. Some progress has been shown but at this point it can't be done. So with what would amounts to no money and no interest shown in the scientific community toward breeding better beagles someone can come up with the claim it can be done. I say let's see it, let them put up or shut up( neither of those will happen) My post at least was not about breeding faster Beagles it was about Breeding Better Beagles, When someone who I was not addressing assumed that any time he is in the audience he must be the one being addressed due to what i would guess would be his mis-guided sense of self importance. Now, get this and this is a good one. he tried to tell me i was responding to his post and not the man who posted after him because they are posted in the order received, ( only true statement the man ever made) and mine was hanging out there In the Air for a minimum of an hour and fourteen minutes. We post and then we look, it is there. Now this is not aimed at you, just a short explanation , I hope you receive it today as it could be jostling for space on this page for perhaps weeks!

Mo Beagler, So the scientists are writing the books on it and the serious breeders are picking them up and bettering the breed. Anyone know any serious Breeders , probably quite a few on here I would say. No wait, if you are not reading these scientific studies you can't be a Serious breeder!
Mo Beagler, You say back in the day it was all pure Guess as to what would happen when you bred dogs, If they turned out bad they were shot. You seen a lot of this " Back in the Day" have you, How old are you about a hundred and twenty. ( you need to quit believing everything you are told and i am sure you believe you are standing right on the cutting edge while the rest of us are out in left field!) Let me guess I bet " Back in The Day" Ole Willet Randall and the likes just were "Lucky guessers" because they couldn't have know crap according to you. And by going with what you say , We who are breeding beagles today if we are not looking at these scientific studies then we don't know crap either because we would be no better off than those in the old days.( I am sure you are looking at these studies and the beagles you breed are going to be quite a few notches above ours. I would like to see some you have applied these " Theories to.) and we are just guessing as well! You need to lay off the kool-Aid over there at the university!

[littlepackguru]

big difference between show dogs and performance dogs.breeding for looks an conformation is one thing breeding for how good a dog runs a rabbit is all together different.not sure im totally convinced that scientist can breed a dog that can run a better an faster rabbit track any better than some of the performance breeders are already doing an been doing for years.
the best rabbit dogs i have ever seen all have had the intangibles of heart desire determination an guts.not sure if scientist can find a specific gene for that.the only way to know if a dog has those things is to spend hours in the field watching them run.

[gwyoung]

I was surprised again this morning when i talked to one of my buddies. he believes that science today can breed a better beagle and if we are not reading the scientific findings before breeding we are guessing and will have to shoot the dogs from our breedings. He doesn't want to have to shoot dogs so he wants to go the scientific route. He is developing a tiny firearm to kill the unwanted Genes in his dogs before breeding. It is based on his Winchester Model 67 but is much smaller. He already has the ammo developed but he has a few questions I would like to pose to those who " know" all about these things. First off his dog backtracks, He would like to know what the backtracking gene in the dog has been called and how to identify it. He knows science has identifyied it or they couldn't build a better beagle. He has similar questions, about the Gene for Check-work, mouth, nose, speed, and straightness. He knows this has all been worked out or some of the claims could not have been made. Oh yea, he wants to know if he loads one tenth of a grain of pure lead into his ammo at a velocity of 27 fps, will it be sufficient to kill the backtracking gene with a head shot and not be so powerful as to travel completely through it and kill an innocent gene standing beside it? Thank You, in advance!