The complete hound

[dog]

I have to agree with that but not for the same reasons as alot of people have. i dont think it can be done much better than what it has been done for the last hundred years , no matter who does it , because there are too many variables when it comes to rabbit dogs , conditions , training , opportunity , terrain , population of game , what the owner likes and dislikes in a dog, the list is endless . you can clone any dog you want 10 times and geneticly it will be the same but all 10 will run a rabbit differently because of these variables. Dont care how good a dog it is , it can only run a rabbit so well , all of those variables will dictate that. If it was possible to make the rabbit dog better then it would have been done by now and it hasnt been , atleast not in my lifetime so far.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

If we wanna really compare notes then lets clone a dog that can not only catch em but produce them at will. Make hunting and handling such a thing of the past.

[dog]

How does the backyard breeder know all those things ? he dont , it is a crapshoot. he might breed a better dog but he has no idea why. he does what has worked before. he couldnt give you an explanation as to why it worked though. Branko breeds great dogs , most that turn out great are dogs he has raised and trained . How many that were sold as pups that he had no hand in raising turned out great ? or atleast as good as the ones he raised , probably very few , especially when comparing numbers . I dont think it is as complicated as some might think to breed a good dog but it takes a certain kind of person to be able to get the most out of that breeding time and time again

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Yes , I read it , maybe i should have said the ones that know dont care and the ones that care dont know. I believe geneticly they could produce the worlds best beagle if they wanted to. in my opinion it will be a sorry day in this world when it happens. to many far more important things going on out there that deserve that attention geneticly. why anyone would waste that time and those resources on a rabbit dog instead of researching all these diseases that people suffer with everyday. its a rabbitdog , if you want better buy it or breed it. The guy down the road is the one that should be trying to improve the rabbit dog not the scientist , that is a waste . agin JMO

Excellent post dog-- But one way to better all of humanity is too study these things on all fronts. Its unethical to study on humans because you have to deal with the consquences of creating something like that. But every time they do a study on dogs, rats or whatever else it brings us one step closer to being able to help humans. I don't necessarily think they would do it to help people shoot more rabbits and win more ribbons although that could be the outcome but to increase our knowledge of genetics so we could use that later on.

Most cancer research is a complete failure but we keep trying because one day we are going to get it right. But your point is valid. There may be a lot better ways to study genes than on a dog but since most (at least I think) research dogs are beagles then it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they might.

As for you GW-- It obvious you have no interest in science or research or whatever... Its pretty clear to most people on this board your comment was directed at me whether you admit it or not.. I came up with PROOF that genetics are an important part of breeding a beagle and without it we would be heading down the same path but because of it, we now have new ways to figure out how to breed traits into and out of our hounds. Its on THE AKC GENETICS SITE.. I even gave you links to it. You can either accept it or argue semantics.. My point is still valid, biologists WHO STUDY BREEDING THEIR ENTIRE LIFE AND CAREER SOMEITMES 80 HOURS A WEEK OR MORE know more about breeding than the majority of people who do it in beagling.

One of the arguments AKC is making in their website is BEAGLE BREEDERS ARE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SCIENCE. If you read it you would know that.. But you probably wouldn't believe it because it was created by us "university types" who use "numbers" and stats. I think you would be amazed to see what they are doing in labs these days. Its free to visit if you want and most universities list all the major projects they are working on if you want to investigate...Its nearly all public record since your tax dollars are somewhat paying for it.

[sparky]

the best rabbit dogs i have ever seen all have had the intangibles of heart desire determination an guts.not sure if scientist can find a specific gene for that.the only way to know if a dog has those things is to spend hours in the field watching them run.

I agree 100%...The only way to Truely know if a hound is a Real Rabbit Dog is to spend hours in the Field observing them Go,I dont believe the Intangibles of a Performance Rabbit Dog is going to Show up on a Laboratory Table. (gun shy,back tracking,running off game,extra mouth,lack of desire/hunt,hard headed wont handle,etc.etc.)

[BCBeagles]

Field time! Amen

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, Are you still standing by your statement that it took my original post an hour and fourteen minutes to arrive. ( Yes or No, that was another intelligent piece of Research on your part. ) Or do you think that my original post was intended for you because it would be hard for you to believe that anyone addressing a topic such as Biology would have to speaking to you because in your mind you are the authority! Anyway , I do have interest research and Science as you falsy claim otherwise. I have enough interest to know what YOU don't ( perhaps you should do a little mnore research) I know that the back-tracking gene in dogs has not been identified, I know that the Genes responsibile for Close check-work, Mouthiness, Over-running, pottering, Etc: have not been identified and until this is done better beagles cannot be bred and have not been Bred by the Scientific community. These are important points! You say they can, I say prove it and at that point you don't have any answers. I think this is clear. Still standing by your statements that all who are breeding beagles without looking at the ' Scientific book know nothing and are only guessing and are not Serious Breeders. How about naming some Serious Breeders for us. They are out there you said they were. Name some so we can ask them if they are looking at the scientific book for their breeding answers. Still would like to see some of those high powered dogs a learned man such as yourself is breeding, For I know you are looking at the book. let's see the proof. I can build a Nuclear bomb in my basement out of Regular household items, as long as I don't have to do it!

[Alabama John]

Don't have a dog in this fight, but my opinion thrown in is field trials and seeing dogs perform in the field hunting decides what is the best breeding.

Experts in statistics and genetics or the backyard breeder that breeds the best he has SEEN male to the best he has SEEN female. Notice emphasis on SEEN.
BS and Pump Up. or trophies doesn't really tell an experienced breeder anything as many of you know and have rightly said. There are too many variables where you hunt and the conditions to cause a dog to be exactly what YOU want and need in your situation.
Only YOU know what fits you best so breed for that and be happy!
When folks mixed Beagles with other breeds to come up with a mix that suited their needs, we seemed, no, did have more happiness among the rabbit dog owners. I have one that has short ears that I'll bet you all would enjoy hunting Canecutters with. Good thing is most of the time on a hunt, he is out of sight anyway. LOL

[gwyoung]

Bcbeagles, I agree Field time. Mo Beagler, has lets his mouth paint his Butt into a Corner so easily, it isn't even sporting anymore! I know i said it before But i think I will let him have the floor from here on out. ( he should probably wait until it dries though) Let's all remember to make the best wild guess we can when breeding beagles as we are now all aware without looking at His Scientific book we know nothing! If anyone has a video of of what some of his breeding efforts have turned out let me know would like to see some real dogs in action, and no culls to be shot to boot!

[Ron Conroe]

my dad always told me you breed the best to the best and then you hope and pray you get something great out of it.but after you get it you better put alot of time on it, becuse it won't be worth a crap setting in the pen or on a chain.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Mo Beagler, Are you still standing by your statement that it took my original post an hour and fourteen minutes to arrive. ( Yes or No, that was another intelligent piece of Research on your part. ) Or do you think that my original post was intended for you because it would be hard for you to believe that anyone addressing a topic such as Biology would have to speaking to you because in your mind you are the authority! Anyway , I do have interest research and Science as you falsy claim otherwise. I have enough interest to know what YOU don't ( perhaps you should do a little mnore research) I know that the back-tracking gene in dogs has not been identified, I know that the Genes responsibile for Close check-work, Mouthiness, Over-running, pottering, Etc: have not been identified and until this is done better beagles cannot be bred and have not been Bred by the Scientific community. These are important points! You say they can, I say prove it and at that point you don't have any answers. I think this is clear. Still standing by your statements that all who are breeding beagles without looking at the ' Scientific book know nothing and are only guessing and are not Serious Breeders. How about naming some Serious Breeders for us. They are out there you said they were. Name some so we can ask them if they are looking at the scientific book for their breeding answers. Still would like to see some of those high powered dogs a learned man such as yourself is breeding, For I know you are looking at the book. let's see the proof. I can build a Nuclear bomb in my basement out of Regular household items, as long as I don't have to do it!

NO YOU IDIOT--- YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T READ MY COMMENT IMMEADIATELY AND POSTED WHEN YOU READ IT!! JESUS H MAN, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY DENSE... IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT, ITS NO WONDER YOU HAVEN"T UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING I HAVE SAID>... I ONLY CALL YOU AN IDIOT BECAUSE YOUR ACTING LIKE ONE!! NOT TO BERATE YOU BUT HOLY CRAP... THATS NOT EVEN SCIENCE-- ITS COMMON FRICKING SENSE--- I CAN GO POST TO SOMEONE ELSE ON HERE AFTER 2 YEARS IF I WANTED.. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE RECIPIENT. NO ONE ON HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE WHO READS THIS THREAD WILL COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU WEREN"T TALKING TO ME!! ESPECIALLY HOW YOU, ALONG WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD KNOW I AM A BIOLOGY TEACHER.. (probably not the best but my kids score WELL ABOVE state average on all their tests) I Could care less whether you want to admit that the comment was directed to me... But if you can't even admit that then its pointless to argue genetics because you seem to not even be able to read the links and figures I gave you because you insisted on it. So I won't but some people, do care about breeding better dogs and look forward to using the tools and resources science gives us to improve our sport. Your probably one of those people who think tracking collars and shockers are worthless because "we should do it the way its always been done"

For the RECORD, I DON'T BREED DOGS, I HAVE BRED ONE LITTER IN MY LIFE, I BUY THEM BECAUSE BREEDING IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR MONEY TO DO IT!!! BUT IF I DID I WOULD USE COMMON SENSE AND USE THE PRACTICES AKC RECOMENDS TO ME.. BECAUSE ITS SCIENCE!! I realize they don't know the bactracking gene or NOSE GENE specifically but they do know some traits and things that we need to be aware of. My whole point in all of this was to say that biologists could, IF THEY WANTED TO dedicate their time and research and produce a beagle that would be better in almost every regard than what we have now... They don't because not enough people are paying them to do it or even care about it.. But along the way people are introducing things aabout canine genetics we need to be aware of and maybe impliment if we want to get better and better. That is all man.. Pure and simple.. Believe it or not. I don't care.. YOu don't have to take any of my biology test and you are not my student. I am not assigning you a grade for your beliefs. Take them and do what you want.. I'd still run some hounds with you, if we met and probably crack some jokes about florescent beagles.

[Norshore]

I don't claim to know much, but one thing I'm 100% certain of is--nobody will ever create a great hound in a test tube.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Mo Beagler, Are you still standing by your statement that it took my original post an hour and fourteen minutes to arrive. ( Yes or No, that was another intelligent piece of Research on your part. ) Or do you think that my original post was intended for you because it would be hard for you to believe that anyone addressing a topic such as Biology would have to speaking to you because in your mind you are the authority! Anyway , I do have interest research and Science as you falsy claim otherwise. I have enough interest to know what YOU don't ( perhaps you should do a little mnore research) I know that the back-tracking gene in dogs has not been identified, I know that the Genes responsibile for Close check-work, Mouthiness, Over-running, pottering, Etc: have not been identified and until this is done better beagles cannot be bred and have not been Bred by the Scientific community. These are important points! You say they can, I say prove it and at that point you don't have any answers. I think this is clear. Still standing by your statements that all who are breeding beagles without looking at the ' Scientific book know nothing and are only guessing and are not Serious Breeders. How about naming some Serious Breeders for us. They are out there you said they were. Name some so we can ask them if they are looking at the scientific book for their breeding answers. Still would like to see some of those high powered dogs a learned man such as yourself is breeding, For I know you are looking at the book. let's see the proof. I can build a Nuclear bomb in my basement out of Regular household items, as long as I don't have to do it!

NO YOU IDIOT--- YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T READ MY COMMENT IMMEADIATELY AND POSTED WHEN YOU READ IT!! JESUS H MAN, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY DENSE... IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT, ITS NO WONDER YOU HAVEN"T UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING I HAVE SAID>... I ONLY CALL YOU AN IDIOT BECAUSE YOUR ACTING LIKE ONE!! NOT TO BERATE YOU BUT HOLY CRAP... THATS NOT EVEN SCIENCE-- ITS COMMON FRICKING SENSE--- I CAN GO POST TO SOMEONE ELSE ON HERE AFTER 2 YEARS IF I WANTED.. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE RECIPIENT. NO ONE ON HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE WHO READS THIS THREAD WILL COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU WEREN"T TALKING TO ME!! ESPECIALLY HOW YOU, ALONG WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD KNOW I AM A BIOLOGY TEACHER.. (probably not the best but my kids score WELL ABOVE state average on all their tests) I Could care less whether you want to admit that the comment was directed to me... But if you can't even admit that then its pointless to argue genetics because you seem to not even be able to read the links and figures I gave you because you insisted on it. So I won't but some people, do care about breeding better dogs and look forward to using the tools and resources science gives us to improve our sport. Your probably one of those people who think tracking collars and shockers are worthless because "we should do it the way its always been done"

For the RECORD, I DON'T BREED DOGS, I HAVE BRED ONE LITTER IN MY LIFE, I BUY THEM BECAUSE BREEDING IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR MONEY TO DO IT!!! BUT IF I DID I WOULD USE COMMON SENSE AND USE THE PRACTICES AKC RECOMENDS TO ME.. BECAUSE ITS SCIENCE!! I realize they don't know the bactracking gene or NOSE GENE specifically but they do know some traits and things that we need to be aware of. My whole point in all of this was to say that biologists could, IF THEY WANTED TO dedicate their time and research and produce a beagle that would be better in almost every regard than what we have now... They don't because not enough people are paying them to do it or even care about it.. But along the way people are introducing things aabout canine genetics we need to be aware of and maybe impliment if we want to get better and better. That is all man.. Pure and simple.. Believe it or not. I don't care.. YOu don't have to take any of my biology test and you are not my student. I am not assigning you a grade for your beliefs. Take them and do what you want.. I'd still run some hounds with you, if we met and probably crack some jokes about florescent beagles.

Hey Mo Beagler i thought you were a sunday school teacher?

[warddog]

my dad always told me you breed the best to the best and then you hope and pray you get something great out of it.but after you get it you better put alot of time on it, becuse it won't be worth a crap setting in the pen or on a chain.

as did my dad and granddads say these same words! I've also scientifically tested these words and they ring true. Got two very well bred dogs that I allowed to sit in the pen too long after being started early.

[hard on a check]

Our Sport is Very Unique & so is what we breed for...We breed for Health & Conformation,but Most of All we breed for Field PERFORMANCE,and the Only way you can even come close to getting All those things out of your breeding is to pay close attention to your hounds & Spend Alot of Time in the Field...
If I was interested in buying a pup from someone,I would feel alot more Confident buying a pup from a Breeder such as "Monk" instead of a scientist out of the lab.