Letter from AKC

[warddog]

All I can say about this is that had I been the one who recieved a full blooded basset hound when I bought an AKC registered beagle I would have been more than pissed! Although I'm no beagle expert but the dog this fella has is definatly more than 1/4 basset and I'll also venture to say NOT the result of the cross mentioned if those papers have anything at all to do genetically with the dog he has. I have over my years following these hounds seen some beagles called bench legged beagles BUT even at that they never possessed the typical basset hound deep thick chest, long body and the heavy muscle as does this basset hound. I'm not trying to offend this guy nor put his dog down but rather make the point that although he wasn't hostile, he has every reason to be. He also never shed a word of questioning any other dogs and merely posted the pedigree for us to see. I can say it sure looked good and that would have even added more to my hostility. GlacierRidge you would have probably been better off to do as you originally thought and stay out of it as your dog was never brought into the question. If I had a dog in this pedigree the only thing I would have stated is that my dog has been DNA profiled and a matter of record with AKC so folks without any knowledge or even some with knowledge of any of the dogs in the pedigree wouldn't even be remotely thinking my stud dog was in question.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

The way I see this...
Contradiction (how fitting) was bred to Specks.
A bassett also bred Contradiction within 48 hrs of Specks.
Now we have a "beagle" that looks part bassett.
I would think if Specks was indeed the sire, he'd have to look even more bassett like than this pup.

Quick Story:
A few years ago a local guy bred his prized female beagle to a chosen stud.
He got home and let her loose in his fenced back yard.
His kids along with their male poodle entered the yard.
The poodle and beagle immediately fell in love.
The guy commented that he was glad the stud beagle got her first!
63 days later she had 4 wavy haired pups and 4 short haired pups.

[yoteslayer]

Should i order a dna kit or will it do no good?

[new kid on the block]

Lone pine beagles I agree with you 100%

[yoteslayer]

So you guys think hes half basset? He shows a ton of basset features that is for sure.

[BuschBound]

Jim Rogers also had dealings with Bassets. Type Jim Rogers Bassetts into your search engines and you will find some other answers to your questions.

[yoteslayer]

I didnt realize this, i knew dick had bassets.

[Tsa la gi]

yoteslayer,
Have been reading all this,hope they get it figured out. From past experience with AKC I dout you will. They Condone FORGERY AND FALSIFICATION OF DOCUMENTATION as well as some on this forum, depends if they are good friends with the crook or not.Thats the drift I got.
Goog Luck

[Ky. Hunter]

I tend to agree with Lone Pine Beagles. The cross with the bassett was probably an accident and whoever owned the bassett probably thought that since the cross with the beagle was made it was ok if the beagle was the first to breed her or either he didn't see the breeding with the bassett. I too have seen pups come from a litter and you could tell they had different fathers. I think every pup from that litter should be DNA'd to determine if this is what happened. Might find that some in that litter are by the desired stud. JMO which doesn't mean much.

[MaineDogs]

I tend to agree with Lone Pine Beagles. The cross with the bassett was probably an accident and whoever owned the bassett probably thought that since the cross with the beagle was made it was ok if the beagle was the first to breed her or either he didn't see the breeding with the bassett. I too have seen pups come from a litter and you could tell they had different fathers. I think every pup from that litter should be DNA'd to determine if this is what happened. Might find that some in that litter are by the desired stud. JMO which doesn't mean much.

YEP, dogs cross up through the fence all the time without the owner knowing until she pops with a litter of pups. It will not surprise me the least bit to find out half the pups are true and the rest are 50/50

[BCBeagles]

Maybe some cases are done willingly. I am guessing this one was not, JMO.

If it was, shame on them, but why would they have reason to do this and be dishonest??? (typical answer, MONEY, ok ok, I get it)

Prior incidents with people on this board may have been done intentionally so why drag that into this question???

[mobeagle]

So many scenarios here there's no way to know for sure what the truth is. To many factors involved to get outright mad and question someones honestly and intentions here. How do we know the accidental cross didnt happen first and intended cross didnt take because of it? What if the intended cross happened first and just didnt take and the accidental cross did? To many unknowns for me to pass judgement. At the end of the day if we have our health our family and a couple dollars in our pocket a deal like this is a minor blip. Sure I'd be upset but it's hunting and nature sometimes things just dont go our way. I would like to think the person yoteslayer got the pup from would offer him another and everyone could just move on. I will assume its a bad accident unless someone can prove otherwise.

[ridgrunner72]

yoteslayer,

If im reading this post correctly AKC has told you they are questioning the cross listed below is this correct?

---------------------IFC Green Bay Butkus
--------LPRCH FDWNR Coal Mine Specks
---------------------FC Ackerville Abbey

You stated the letter from AKC says that the above listed cross is wrong and that the sire is not Green Bay Butkus.

Gene W on page one stated that Speck has been DNA profiled but how can this be since the cross in question is his parents? Maybe when they did the DNA test is when they found out that his parents are wrong?

Keyview on page three stated that he owns Butkus and that he is DNA profiled since 2009 and there is no questions whether his pedigree is correct since AKC is not questioning Butkus.

So if this is the case any breedings by Coal Mine Specks are the ones that AKC are going to be chasing down since it is his parents that are wrongly listed which would mean any litters sired by him or any of his brothers and sisters are not accurate.

Im glad your happy with your dog and it sucks you didnt get what you were hoping for but lets hope that AKC can track down who the father of Specks is and know that all the other dogs in the pedigree that you listed are accurate so there is no reason to question any of them.

If i am wrong in any of the above statements let me know. I just hate to see innocent people and dogs dragged thru the mud because of people not reading the whole story.

[bfoster]

Wow, a lot to read. You guys were busy on the computer over the weekend.

Lessons can be learned from ‘yoteslayers’ experience. Thank you ‘yoteslayer’ for sharing it. I wish you luck in finding the happens you seek with your hounds. Papers aren’t everything and if you wish to trial your hound there are plenty of places you can do that. This situation may limit you from some, but don’t let that take from your enjoyment as there are other options.

Accidents happen, honest people will do anything and everything to correct an accident if it happens. Reputable breeders eliminate the potential for accidents. Example: females and males in completely separate areas and a breeding pen away from both.

Buy direct from an honest reputable breeder and you are less likely to have to deal with an accident.

Everyone: If you have any question about the pedigree of a hound check for DNA profiling found within the pedigree. The more DNA profiled the better. As the buyer of a new puppy offer to pay an extra $80 to the breeder to have both the sire ($40) and dam ($40) DNA profiled with AKC. Don’t just put the cost of DNA on the breeder and then expect him to sell you a cheap puppy from the top stud dog in the country. This is and always has been a cheap man’s sport. Putting forced extra cost on people that are already honest and reputable makes it hard for them in hard times. I personally don’t agree with more laws and more rules. Protect yourself with education and knowledge. Don’t expect a rule or law to protect you from danger. Only the strong survive!! Are you strong?

[Gene W]

Gene W on page one stated that Speck has been DNA profiled but how can this be since the cross in question is his parents? Maybe when they did the DNA test is when they found out that his parents are wrong?

What is in question is the sire to yoteslayer's dog, not Specks (the way I understand it).

----------------------------------------NLPC IFC Melanson Ranger Dan (AKC DNA #V45573)
------------------------------IFC Green Bay Shooter (AKC DNA #V280953)
----------------------------------------FC Pine Acres Mollie
--------------------IFC Green Bay Butkus (AKC DNA #V562163)
----------------------------------------NLPC FC SR Donald Butch (AKC DNA #V394777)
------------------------------FC Green Bay Wiley
----------------------------------------FC Busca Bound Minka Marge (AKC DNA #V662130)
----------Coal Mine Specks (AKC DNA #V678569)
----------------------------------------IFC Fredy Line Joe (AKC DNA #V103751)
------------------------------FC Green Bay Dickey Doo (AKC DNA #V538434)
----------------------------------------IFC Murray's Holly Prop
--------------------FCLP Ackerville Abbey
----------------------------------------NLPC FC SR Donald Butch (AKC DNA #V394777)
------------------------------FC Green Bay Wiley
----------------------------------------FC Busca Bound Minka Marge (AKC DNA #V662130)
-----Chasin' Smoke And Mirrors
----------------------------------------NLPC IFC Melanson Ranger Dan (AKC DNA #V45573)
------------------------------IFC Green Bay Shooter (AKC DNA #V280953)
----------------------------------------FC Pine Acres Mollie
--------------------FC Glacier Ridge Renegade (AKC DNA #V411724)
----------------------------------------Pooh Bears Brewster
------------------------------Natures Newborn Reba
----------------------------------------Spring Creek Kate II
----------Shadowed Acres Contradiction
----------------------------------------IFC MJR Mitsou Argenteuil Striker (AKC DNA #V135637)
------------------------------Maravic's Blues Clues (AKC DNA #V339994)
----------------------------------------FC Maravic's Blue Moon
--------------------FC Green Bay Blue Bay
----------------------------------------FC Maravic's Aladdin (AKC DNA #V105762)
------------------------------FC Mr Stubs Nikita
----------------------------------------Maravic's Mr Stubs Dianna