The American Beagler Forum

Progressive Pack,

The NKC has set by and watched long enough. I thought the less said the better, but with all the liable posts and remarks being said I’ve had enough. This mess was not started by NKC, PP Board, Watchdog Committee or Mace Clark. A small group of people claimed that it APPEARED that Mace was manipulating the judges; however, no protest was filed on that day and Mace did not even win the hunt. I talked with Matt Glomski President of the Central Indiana Beagle Club, and he told me he didn’t believe Mace had cheated but he was also hearing the same accusations. If libelous rumors were not bad enough Mace’s family was verbally attacked. His son was accused of cheating and his wife & daughter was subjected to snide remarks. The Watchdog Committee was receiving calls as was our office from different clubs in which we were told that individuals from Indiana Clubs were saying that Mace was cheating. (If you accuse the Chairman of The Board of cheating you had better have proof. I don’t care who the chairman is or what division he is over.) The rumors just got worse so after speaking with Matt, I cancelled all of the Central Indian hunts for the rest of the year hoping things would calm down before the 2005 year. Several club members wanted to have a meeting to clean the air; however, when you make accusations such as these I have to get involved. The meeting was held and both sides had their say. No one offered proof that Mace cheated. In fact just the opposite happened, everyone was unanimous in there opinion that neither Mace nor his son had cheated. Now the damage had already been done, and as the owner I had to make my decision. I based my decision on the results of the meeting, the unsportsman like conduct of Randy, Dale and Matt as well as emails and phone calls we have received. I do not enjoy banning or putting people on probation, but when it is necessary I will do so. The message board has been full of lies and half truths. That is why until now we have been silent. I had requested that no Executive Board Member or anyone on behalf of the NKC/ARHA make any posts. I did not want to post the bans and probations we gave in order not to embarrass anyone. Field trialing is a privilege and not a right; it is also a business that has to be run for the benefit of all of the ARHA not just a few. Since we purchased the ARHA we have tried our best to help this organization grow (and it has). Your Corporate sponsorship is up and the US was the largest to date in 2004. There have been a few posts threatening us with pulling their registrations and hunt entries. If you are so inclined please feel free to do so. If you wish I’ll be glad to call the owners of the other registries and tell them you are on the way. What a few have done is not hurting the NKC but hurting your fellow field trialers. This is suppose to be fun, if you don’t enjoy the ARHA find something else, life is too short. The lesson from this should be if you make false accusations or accuse someone of cheating and don’t file a protest you better be able to accept the repercussions. The ARHA has rules and a watchdog committee to enforce them; however, as the owner I have the right and obligation to see that decisions are made for the benefit of the whole organization not just a few. Once again if you do not agree with the PP Board, the Watchdog Committee or myself in our decision in this matter feel free to try other registries or any new one that may be coming along.

Thank you,
Del Morgan
President & CEO
NKC/ARHA

Careful what you wish for!

Probably would have been more professional to post a public explanation to start with instead of waiting until you were backed in a corner

I always thought customer service was the first priority of any business


VAbeagler

Since when does filing a protest mean anything, yeah u get your money thats about it.I should know.

Sometimes things are exactly as they appear.

I understand fully what you say, and as a person in management of major company I also know that it is important to stick to your rules, but it is also to have your rules written and not make them up as you go. When Mace or any other board or committee member puts his dog down in a hunt then he should do so as a regular entry not in his capacity of(board member, president or any other title) people are accussed of cheating at most hunts that I have been to without protests being filed yet I do not see this type of action being taken, nor should it. If a board member is to get different treatment when they are accussed versus a regular trialer then they should not be allowed to trial or either trial with the same rights as any other individual that chooses to enter. The problem that most people have with this decision is the manner that it was carried out. A person being accussed should never be allowed to chair or vote in a hearing that he and his accusers are being heard in. It's bad business, and you can do as you please as you are the owner, but please remember that the people make arha not the board members, watch dog committee or anyone else. As long as things are done fair, by "WRITTEN" rules that "EVERYONE" has access to then you would not have this mess that we have now, which takes away from arha. Just something to think about.


Big Dog

NKC/ARHA wrote:Progressive Pack,

The NKC has set by and watched long enough. I thought the less said the better, but with all the liable posts and remarks being said I’ve had enough. This mess was not started by NKC, PP Board, Watchdog Committee or Mace Clark. A small group of people claimed that it APPEARED that Mace was manipulating the judges; however, no protest was filed on that day and Mace did not even win the hunt. I talked with Matt Glomski President of the Central Indiana Beagle Club, and he told me he didn’t believe Mace had cheated but he was also hearing the same accusations.

If the president of a club is hearing accusations of a member cheating from a variety of people, then a meeting with all club members to discuss it, or make some small changes that would both alleviate those fears and remove the doubt of visiting beaglers is in order. The way I understand it, club tried on more than one occasion to meet, but met resistence and was told by the club secretary that they couldn't meet without his approval - that it states as much in the by-laws. When asked for a copy of the by-laws, the secretary refused to give him one. Noone else in the club has a copy of these "by-laws" either. The president also asked for a complete list of the membership and was denied that as well. Since when does the Secretary wield more power than the President of a club?

If libelous rumors were not bad enough Mace’s family was verbally attacked. His son was accused of cheating and his wife & daughter was subjected to snide remarks. The Watchdog Committee was receiving calls as was our office from different clubs in which we were told that individuals from Indiana Clubs were saying that Mace was cheating. (If you accuse the Chairman of The Board of cheating you had better have proof. I don’t care who the chairman is or what division he is over.) The rumors just got worse so after speaking with Matt, I cancelled all of the Central Indian hunts for the rest of the year hoping things would calm down before the 2005 year. Several club members wanted to have a meeting to clean the air; however, when you make accusations such as these I have to get involved.

If anyone is accused of cheating you'd better have proof, not just the Chairman of the Board. Besides, Mace was being accused in the capacity of a Club Secretary and MOH, not as the chairman, so your presence shouldn't have been a prerequiste to hold a meeting. This needed to be settled on a club level first - using due process, and in accordance to the "unseen" by-laws. That would have been the best example possible for other clubs to follow. In that respect it is my opinion that NKC and the Chairman dropped the ball and indeed contributed to this "mess".

The meeting was held and both sides had their say. No one offered proof that Mace cheated. In fact just the opposite happened, everyone was unanimous in there opinion that neither Mace nor his son had cheated.

Of course no one had proof Mace was cheating, my understand from the beginning was that the club wanted to enact a few practices that would ease everyone's mind that there WAS NO cheating; rotating MOH, doing away with drawing judges names written on little pieces of paper out of a hat, etc. These were the little questionable practices that made people suspect the integrity of the club, the things that the President wanted to discuss at a club meeting, and they are such small things to change. The enormous resistence to do so, or even talk about it was what turned this into a full-fledged "blame game".

Now the damage had already been done, and as the owner I had to make my decision. I based my decision on the results of the meeting, the unsportsman like conduct of Randy, Dale and Matt as well as emails and phone calls we have received. I do not enjoy banning or putting people on probation, but when it is necessary I will do so. The message board has been full of lies and half truths. That is why until now we have been silent.

In my opinion, the message board is still full of lies and half-truths.

I had requested that no Executive Board Member or anyone on behalf of the NKC/ARHA make any posts. I did not want to post the bans and probations we gave in order not to embarrass anyone. Field trialing is a privilege and not a right; it is also a business that has to be run for the benefit of all of the ARHA not just a few.

You said a mouthful there.

Since we purchased the ARHA we have tried our best to help this organization grow (and it has). Your Corporate sponsorship is up and the US was the largest to date in 2004. There have been a few posts threatening us with pulling their registrations and hunt entries. If you are so inclined please feel free to do so. If you wish I’ll be glad to call the owners of the other registries and tell them you are on the way. What a few have done is not hurting the NKC but hurting your fellow field trialers. This is suppose to be fun, if you don’t enjoy the ARHA find something else, life is too short. The lesson from this should be if you make false accusations or accuse someone of cheating and don’t file a protest you better be able to accept the repercussions. The ARHA has rules and a watchdog committee to enforce them; however, as the owner I have the right and obligation to see that decisions are made for the benefit of the whole organization not just a few. Once again if you do not agree with the PP Board, the Watchdog Committee or myself in our decision in this matter feel free to try other registries or any new one that may be coming along.

Thank you,
Del Morgan
President & CEO
NKC/ARHA

Thank you for your response on behalf of NKC to the readers of this message board. Now would it be possible for each and every member of CIBC to receive a copy of the Club by-laws and a full membership list? Since the President of the club has been banned from holding any office for three years, can the Vice President move up and request a meeting to discuss the club issues that were never addressed or resolved because this got spun into an entirely different direction? Or is the Vice President banned, too? Who would move up in that case? Don't tell me, let me guess....

Sincerely,
Beverley Saunders
Just a Beagler.

Bev, The reason everyone posts here is because they can't speak up on the NKC site. I'm glad you also noticed a fox in the hen house.

Tough to get a fair fight when you have to fight both the judge and the jury

Way to tell it Bev.

By the way thanks for the second issue it was not your fault it didn't arrive(GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE).

VABEAGLER

Quote:This mess was not started by NKC, PP Board, Watchdog Committee or Mace Clark

BULL****!!!! If that big overgrown BABY would have let the club have their meeting, this would have been over and forgotten a long time ago.
By the way, how is it that a club secretary has the right to FORBID a club from having a meeting, when all the club officers are calling for a meeting?
Also, why didn't he answer Randy's question as to why he removed Matt Glomski from State Rep for Indiana...maybe it had something to do with Matt picking up his dog at a trial the week before? How is it that just a few weeks ago, while he was judging in KY, 3 HOY top ten dogs were picked up under his judging. Pretty handy, isn't it? I mean, him having a hound running HOY and all. Ask about his scoring at last weekend's trial.
I've already heard that the person who was judging with him came out of the brush after the hour and was so confident he knew the winner that he walked up to that dog's owner and congratulated him, only to find out that Mace (who he was shouting points to, so that Mace could record them)
gave the win to another dog...which happens to be a CC hardtrack dog.
OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!

Boy Ol Mace is digging him a hole, lets see if everyone sticks together on this deal.
Id say before it is over they will be makeing apologies,, insted of smart remarks about going to other formats. ( Now that was real buisness smarts )
Guys we have the power here to show them they dont control us.
Lets do something about it.

Bev, You hit the nail on the head. This post makes me wanna puke!!! I said from day one, HAVE A CLUB MEETING AND LETS GET THIS SETTLED ACCORDING TO MATT....DEL SAID LET IT REST AT THE U.S. I CONTACTED JOYCE, WROTE MACE.....NOTHING EVER GOT DONE!

Mr. Morgan, Can you explain to these fine people how the leaders demoted Matt in 2003 from State rep for "not judging by the book" but yet left a judges card in his hand.....and asked him to judge the run offs in 2004. Demoted in early 2003.....and loses judges card August 2004...........something seems funny here?

As Del pointed out.... I never once said Mace cheated. I said it looked bad and is a reflection on me and my fellow club members when people think a club in Danville is cheating and thats where I live and am best known! Thats why I was for a meeting, to make changes that would make it seem we were trying our best to be level and fair. I mean, the same judge was drawn to judge the MOH's dogs all weekend(4 casts), this man never even got to run his own dogs, there were other judges available, the MOH's dog won all 4 casts, I didnt even have an open dog entered so you know I didnt feel cheated......IS IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO SEE WHY THIS COULD "LOOK" FUNNY?????? Is it hard and complicated to understand why a club would ask for a meeting at the club level over this?????

If people said your Chairman cheated, Perhaps Mr. Morgan, you should have personally contacted the people who said he cheated rather than having others contact them. I sent you an email yesterday that tells the truth from the own horses mouth. Now if you all cant handle the truth thats fine.......but dont try making me look like the bad guy when the people who said your Chairman cheated are still on line reading these posts!

I HAVE NEVER SAID A CROSS WORD TO ELLEN, JOSH or LISA! As a matter of fact..at our August 14th meeting I went up and shook hands with Josh and told him I was sorry all this was happening and that I hoped it would all be ok someday and that I had nothing against him. Josh Clark is as honest as the day is long! I also spoke to Ellen as we passed, these are good people, in my opinion... I wouldnt have brought my family into it for my own gain. To my knowledge the people who accused Josh was never even contacted and darn sure wasnt in Lynnville on August 14th, and neither were the people who accused Mace.

I never wanted this to get to this point, but now that it has I guess people will have to decide on their own. I know I have seen it all throughout this mess.

Randy

Stay tuned, more info is on its way.

I am new to trialing and kind of watched this issue from a far for the last few days. I must say very interesting topic All jokes aside if my President just came out and said what was said above; to say I would be dissapointed would be an understatement. By the way your post sounds you are going to ban whoever disagrees with you and the hell with them. Sounds like you may have a organization with 7 or 8 people before this is all said and done. Its not you or the other guy who claimed someone cheated that I feel for... its all the honest guys that just like to compete there hounds against some friendly competition and have to put up with this type of action. How dissapointing it must be for the average beagler to come on here and read this about something they cared so much about. I beleive your approach to solving a complexed issue is slightly off track. I have no knowledge of what happened but smell something fishy by what I have read. I hope the issue gets solved the best way possible and the beagling world continues to grow in a positive manner.

smitty1233

course, I shouldn't be too surprised. Let me see, what was it Del said at the meeting with CIBC...."I'm going to protect my Chairman". Man, I wish I had the owner of ARHA saying that about me. I could swindle anyone and when they cried foul I could just run to him and tell him I'm being picked on.
Then I could take a bunch of worthless dogs and get wins. . Oh, and you don't have to take my word for it...ask anyone who was there.

The anti's just love these kind of problems. Who every is wrong whoever is right we just better get over this and move on because this bad for the Beagling world, not just these petty problems in this situation but this is bad for all of us. I do not care what registery you are with and what format you run, this is completely bad for the Sport of Beagling. Just a reminder to everybody God is the only Judge in the end. Everybody in this situation will be Judged by the only real judge that matters.

So far this thing is 8 to 4 Guests winning. Wayne

No disrespect intended Hilltop, but to hell with the anti's. I don't let the anti's dictate how and when I enjoy my sport, or how and when I discuss it. They'd like for me to stop showing dead rabbits on the cover of my magazine, too, but they're looking up a goat's butt if they think I'll stop. There's no meeting those people halfway - you just have to go on about ur bad self and stay true to ur beliefs.

Hoping this issue drops is what's bad for the sport in the long run. It needs to be resolved and THEN move on, not swept under the rug just because everyone's had their "say". Nothing was accomplished here except 3 exceptional beaglers have been barred from the program. The original problem is still there, ignoring it won't make it go away. You can cover up a skin cancer for a little while, you can give enough antibiotics to a bruc+ hound to hide the disease, but the skin cancer will only grow larger, and the brucellosis will eventually take down everything you have.

I hope I don't sound like I'm coming down on you because I'm not. I know you just don't want a bunch of discord among us, neither do I, but if we don't rectify this breakdown in the organizational order it will continue to rear it's ugly head.