anyone else having bad running?

[blackdirt beagles]

Why is it snow conditions that give your dogs trouble? Whats the diff of that or the other weather conditions I described? They all somehow hamper a dogs ability to really run hard that day and thats what my original post was about: conditions that hurt the running or scenting. I know how other hunters can hurt the results, because I've been invited out by quite a few idiots over the years who thought they knew it all about hunting over dogs. If I ever make it up your way, I'll bring a dog or 2. I would be curious as to how they would do in your climate. Probably be rough. My "bad winter" conditions generally consist of 4 to 6 inches of snow and 0 temp. Thats probably fair to decent conditions for you. I like my line of dogs I got right now. They do very well in my geographic conditions and I'm finally getting to where I can breed and expect to get some common traits. I just wanted some input on why somedays just arent good running (scenting) and some are great. Thanks for the debate, hope I didnt sound #$*!@. Sometimes I can get into it a little much.

[Chris]

Tossing around ideas and questions is what it's all about Blackdirt. I know I've enjoyed reading this thread. Nobody probably wants to read my typing as much as I want to read everyone else's, but that's OK with me.

There are days on snow when dogs can't run steady, but there aren't any days on bare ground when a good dog can't run good enough to kill rabbits. OK, that's not entirely correct, but you could count on two or three fingers the # of times my dogs couldn't run good enough to kill rabbits on bare ground -- and that's out of roughly 80 days over the last 2 years rabbit hunting on bare ground. Those same dogs have probably run 130 days on snow, over the same 2 years, and there are more days than I care to count when they couldn't keep steady pressure on a hare. These #'s are pretty accurate as far as I can tell, looking at my book. I've run with some pretty big named dogs and to be honest, I wouldn't have traded any dogs with them. Most beagles struggle on certain snow conditions, like when temps drop below 20 degrees and the snow is older than 2 or 3 days. That's just fact. It must be because they just don't have the nose to smell it, no matter how well they run when conditions are good. Nothing else explains it.

I'm always looking for good dogs that can potentially get it done on tough going. I had a really nice guy from WV come up this past fall and he brought be a 7 or 8 month old Patch male in exchange for a couple days of hunting for he and a buddy. I think they had a pretty good time -- I know I did. I'm pretty pleased with the dog so far. He's got a pretty good nose and I'm happy (so far) with the way he's coming along. If it weren't for the internet, there's no way I would have ever been in contact with this guy. I now have a friend and a new dog to try. I'm always willing to learn and debate. I have my experiences and you all have yours. That's what makes it interesting.

If someone brings up a dog that can kick the hell out of my best on tough snow going, then I'll be happy as a clam. I'd like to own that dog, or breed to him. I'll bend over backwards to get some of that blood and see what comes of it. I've been asking all around for well over a month about studs and have 4 to go see run. Four. That's how confident that folks are in their dog's ability on tough snow going. The breed needs more nose. I believe that it's as simple as that.

[Alabama John]

Chris, don't count our dogs noses out. They can and will open and while swimming or wading, trail a rabbit across a pond or backwater by scenting the body scent on the water. We just can't say what they would do in snow as they have never hunted in any since we stay home by the fire, build snow men, eat snow ice cream and take the days off until it melts. We never get the dogs out on the few days we get to see snow.
We do have dogs with nose enough to run and walk if necessary all day in cotton fields and most dogs that I have seen that come from up North cannot do that. They either hang up or start circling way out trying to find the scent. We may have what you are looking for, but do not know it. That may be true of all our Southern dogs. There are good dogs everywhere, sometimes it is the environment they are used to running in that they excell in, not just the nose.

[bowhunter59]

not to bad here but not great either dogs ran 3 yesterday and went about 20 feet and lost all of them then hit one and ran it for an hr so go figure!

[beaglebill]

YESTERDAY DOGS GOT UP ONE REAL QUICK HAD A 7 MONTH OLD PLUS MY OLDER DOG. DIDNT TAKE A GUN AS I HAVE NOT SHOT AROUND THE YOUNG DOG YET..CIRCLED GREAT 2 TIMES WITH THE PUP GETTING SOME CHECKS..I GUESS I NEED TO SHOOT HER ONE..TODAY MY SON SHOT 5..HE TOOK TWO OLDER DOGS SAID RUNNING WAS GREAT...SOUTH IND...

[blackdirt beagles]

Chris, thanks kinda ironic that your dogs struggle sometimes when it 20 degrees with older snow. Thats my favorite time to go, when the snow is packed down and a few days old. Thats when my 2 older dogs really stand out. Most of my dogs "trouble" days are when the temp is around 40 and the ground is bare. I dont have a journal(I know I should) but just from memory thats when I have the most trouble. I run all year and by "trouble" I mean maybe once a month or so when they cant run a track at all. I know they got the nose, and in my opinion they have at least average brains (some more), so I'm not really sure what the trouble is. I still think that somehow all the changing weather and stuff we get this time of year here has at least something to do with it. Oh well, I'll keep running them and sooner or later maybe I'll get a "super beagle" .

[snowshoehareguide]

hunted yesterday poring rain a foot of snow in whips. ice under the thicket dogs ran pretty good today was a different story 25 degrees . kind of breezy. it did snow enogh so could see a track out in hardwoods. thin crust. you couldnt see track under any softwood trees at all. dogs ran terrible. they had to jump to get thru snow in open because of the crust. they kept track going for hours at a time but verry little running. spell it BORING. this was my three best dogs. they are willing to jump to get thru crust as long as i care to hunt. thats the desire they have. that isnt where they have the problem. its the ice under all softwood. they cant get enough scent. when its above freezing they run real good on crust. colder it gets the harder it is . on fresh snow my bettr dogs i have now run at zero. have had a few that ran way below zero. old snow is worse running . we very seldom have old snow here unless its real cold. when it gets ten-20below this old snow will not be good running again unless temps get above freezing. its the coldest temp that snows been exposed to. not how old it is . this thin crust that holds the hare but not the dogs makes it harder. we have a lot of spruce /fir thickets. you wil think theres 5 feet of snow and thats no joke. it never reaches the ground under them. only about a foot of snow here but its 5 foot deep in those thickets now. ive seen 6 ft of snow and bare ground under these thickets. snow may cover trees ten feet high in thickets.this is hares favorite hangout. he can run right over the top . this is where dogs lose a lot of time. they cant go over they fall thru it. lots of times they can go under. hare does both over and under. they get behind and theyre done. this is where the cold trailing comes in. they need to get this track going again. anyways i agree with chris 100% very few beagles have the nose it takes . thats the problem here . its a wet climate . dogs almost always do ok on bare ground. have seen when leaves first fell and so dry they are swirling around and dogs cant run too great. and ive seen my best dogs smoked on bare ground. the very best snow dogs were not the best bare ground dogs. cottontail dogs is almost a dirty word around here among some beaglers. everybodys looking for speed. have seen dogs that match speed to conditions and that sure helps. one guy said that slower dogs brought rabbit around quicker. and if slow dog doesnt lose and fast dog does hes right , anyways i couldnt type in ten years exactly what im trying to say but dog with gears is what im after. walk if you have to and run to catch when you can. dogs ive seen that did this some said were cottontail dogs. they are the best ive seen on crust. they also were real steady barkers. i want to hear the dog at all times. i can get all the speed i need anywhere. its the dog that doesnt lose that gets the game here. the hare runs better circles ahead of a steady barking dog. ive seen more of that in so called cottontail breeding. cant use a super slow dog because they also have to get thru deep snow. or like today jump all day long because of the crust. i dont travel much. someday i want to see a lion in a tree and close second would be those swimming swamp rabbits. have treed coon squirrel bobcat bear grey fox. . have run fox coyote hare cottontails. never a swamp rabbit . pete

[TomMN]

I have had some of my best runs on fresh snow, that's when my old "cold trailer" can run with her head up. The toughest running here is on old snow and below zero temps. I think it is because of the climate is so dry here in the winter. When we have a cold snap up here your skin dries out so that your fingers crack and bleed. It burns your lungs to breath outside. The dogs try to walk on three feet to keep from touching the ground. I have a female that froze three of here t**s off, one of the guys I hunt with has a female beagle that lost all of hers. He ran her on bobcats one day when it was -20 (I have seen this female run steady on days when the other dogs couldn't keep a track going, now she can't raise pups, sorry Pete). I can't imagine how all this affects a dogs ability to smell but I know it isn't good.
By the way, we have been having way above normal temps so far but no snow yet.

[snowshoehareguide]

tom i dont think we get it here as bad as minesota but ive seen it cold enough so male dogs froze testicles . was 39 below one morning. we waited till sun was up an hour to let dog go and it was maybe 25 below. that was coldest i ever ran a dog. was running coyote and another time cat hunting no thermometer but cold enough for same results.both these dogs recovered one quickly other one was a long time and not pretty. pete