Kim, the snow here is practically gone. There is still a few small patches of crusty snow left in the thick pine stands, but other than that, it's gone. How much total snow amounts did ya`ll get down there? We got about 6 inches.
BeagleBum, That must be a coincidence because my barrel sems to get bent a little further each time out, LOL. However, this was indeed my 1st miss of the season and several bunnies are already in the freezer. I have been using my new 410 so far,but maybe I bent this barrel too???, LOL.
anyone else having bad running?
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
running conditions.
bad running , do any one of you think maybe you could use a dog with a little more nose. .. you guys need to find some dogs with some nose . and im not trying to sell you anything. im willing to bet that there are dogs that would have run good in all conditions you describe. im not picking on you or trying to make anybody mad average beagles have poor noses. only the very best dogs can run in most conditions. i see dogs all the time that cant run here at all. see a hare they cant run it. some will learn to run on snow and ice but some are just born with the nose and make it look easy .i wish all you guys could have a dog like that . i dont have one but have seen a few that didnt care too much about conditions that stop most dogs. pete
snowshoe, we have 7 young hare-bred hounds (first gun season) and if we ever get any snow, I'll let you know if they have good snow noses. Haven't had any problems with our cottontail bred dogs, they all do pretty well on snow. I like it when they drive a rabbit around for you and you can see the icicles hanging off their ears, mouth, belly and tail - - - - and they're lovin' it!
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blackdirt beagles
Nose would not be a problem as we have a few older dogs that some people may say have too much nose or cold trail(guess those guys dont know any better). Sometimes you just get some bad scenting days. Not trying to be rude, but I havent seen any dog or line of dogs that can always run, no matter what, end of story. I doubt if I saw yours I would have to change that statement. Just happens, be it humidity, air pressure, changing temp or whatever, sometimes you cant run no matter what dogs you have.
I still say it has more to do with the rabbit. I'm not convinced a nose can turn on and shut off. It's either the rabbit or the ground conditions - not nose. I think all healthy dogs have more or less equal scenting capacity. The choice of when to use the mouth is the big difference. Cold-trailers just talk sooner or will talk on fainter scent, or simply have more patience to work on an older or fainter track. I don't think dogs are literally hot-nosed either. They are just tighter with the mouth and won't open on older or faint scent. They may not have the patience to work it out and constantly search for a fresher track making you think he can't smell what's there. Sometimes what's there is as good as it's gonna get that day.
There are definitely dogs with better/bigger/colder noses. I've hunted over a lot of different dogs and there seems to be one constant -- if they can't smell it, they can't run it.
The only reason that folks don't want to believe that there are dogs that can nearly always run decent (simply better noses coupled with the smarts to use it correctly) is because this type of dog doesn't do well at field trials. If they did, then there would be more of them. They might be a little loose with their mouth, or be willing to work on an older track. The trade off that the mainstream beagle community has taken is trading a lot of the beagle's nose for a few things that make a dog look extra good when scenting conditions are optimum -- perfect use of mouth, speed (to some extent), etc.
With a weapon like a big nose comes a big responsibility -- some know how to use it and some don't. The ones that don't are a dime a dozen (these are the ones you refer to as cold trailers and babblers); the ones that do are gold (these are the ones that you refer to as 'that wonder dog that so-and-so shoots rabbits with every darned time he goes out'). Sure, scenting conditions play a big part, but you've gotta' find some of that gold and you'll realize that scenting conditions don't play as big of a part as many think they do. We all know that there are no perfect beagles, but if scenting ability played a little bigger part in a breeder's decision making process, there'd be a lot less of these days when our dogs just couldn't keep a rabbit going.
The only reason that folks don't want to believe that there are dogs that can nearly always run decent (simply better noses coupled with the smarts to use it correctly) is because this type of dog doesn't do well at field trials. If they did, then there would be more of them. They might be a little loose with their mouth, or be willing to work on an older track. The trade off that the mainstream beagle community has taken is trading a lot of the beagle's nose for a few things that make a dog look extra good when scenting conditions are optimum -- perfect use of mouth, speed (to some extent), etc.
With a weapon like a big nose comes a big responsibility -- some know how to use it and some don't. The ones that don't are a dime a dozen (these are the ones you refer to as cold trailers and babblers); the ones that do are gold (these are the ones that you refer to as 'that wonder dog that so-and-so shoots rabbits with every darned time he goes out'). Sure, scenting conditions play a big part, but you've gotta' find some of that gold and you'll realize that scenting conditions don't play as big of a part as many think they do. We all know that there are no perfect beagles, but if scenting ability played a little bigger part in a breeder's decision making process, there'd be a lot less of these days when our dogs just couldn't keep a rabbit going.
Chris
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blackdirt beagles
I agree with what your're saying to a point, but like I stated I do have a couple "big nose" dogs and they couldnt get the job done on those certain days. Thats just the way it is. I'm not a trialer, I'm a hunter so I dont keep "trial" dogs, I keep gundogs and 90%(or better) of the time they look very tough and account for their game. This running just falls into the other 10% catergory that a lot of guys dont like to admit to, but it happens. Here in IL we are kinda in the middle of our seasons. One day it is 50 and the next it is 15 for a high temp. I very much believe that all the weather changes do affect scenting very much. Just like if a person has allergies they watch the pollen count. On high count days they have trouble and vice versa. They still have the same amount of "smell" power, they just have different conditions to deal with. Same with dogs, they still got the same power nose, they just got different conditions that affect their scent ability.
bad running
I took my hot nosed dogs out this morning,(LOL) and things were a whole different story. I jumped 2 rabbits and they ran the fur off of both of them with very few checks. Even my two pups that I just got back from the training pen chimed in a couple of times.
Big Dog
Big Dog
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
cold nosed hounds.
bev if you havent got any snow yet chances are you wont get any temperature cold enough to test them. i hunted on snow and then on crust in october .
black dirt. unless you have several generations youve bred yourself you may be hunting some trial dogs.
ive seen one dog that ran everyday i went hunting for ten years. from 25 below to 85 above
i hunted several pups out of him that were cold nosed dogs and ran pretty fair any day i hunted for years.
they did this at 7-8 months old. when other older dogs were worried about the humidity and barometric pressure and stuff like that.
i just got a pair of expensive dogs from a friend guy took them to a beagle club in southern newyork and tried them on hare on a dusting of snow he said they were awsome. they havent even barked here. same time my other dogs have run from barely to great. i see that same kind of thing all the time. i guess some of you will never believe it.
i dont have a dog now that i consider cold nosed. i do have some ok dogs that have a ton of experience on snow. .
chris and i guide hunters. we dont pick our days. the difference is in the snow we can see the tracks the hare dont go in a hole. turn a dog loose in a sea of tracks and he doesnt do a thing. i hear that your dogs have no problem with snow but humidity and barometric pressure and winds out of the east gets them. they have good noses but these things really bother them. bev says all dogs have the same nose. we all have the same voice. would you like to hear me sing. not for long you wouldnt. my whole life ive seen dogs that could do it when others couldnt. seen dogs roar on tracks other dogs didnt know were there. now these other dogs would have days they could do a good job, to say that all dogs have the same nose is ridiculous to me. if a dog that sometimes runs his guts out on a certain day. say its 25 above zero. next day it 5 below and i jump a hare right in front of him and he chases it a few feet and can go no farther. well whats the reason. ? now say i get another dog and take him ther a few minutes later. and he runs his guts out. has no problem to run at all. what is the reason. i guess the first dog just didnt want to run that day. ive seen this happen more times than i can count. anybody can make up a million reasons why a dog cant run on a certain day. ive heard so many excuses. so you tell me why can one dog run when another cant. if you tell me its intelligence. than next time i see a dog that cant run cause he is too hot nosed ill just call him stupid. most beagles that i see do not have the nose to run here. either that or they are just stupid. or maybe they are smart enough and have nose enough but just dont want to. you can believe it or not. and the same time they dont there are dogs that will run almost without a loss. pete
black dirt. unless you have several generations youve bred yourself you may be hunting some trial dogs.
ive seen one dog that ran everyday i went hunting for ten years. from 25 below to 85 above
i hunted several pups out of him that were cold nosed dogs and ran pretty fair any day i hunted for years.
they did this at 7-8 months old. when other older dogs were worried about the humidity and barometric pressure and stuff like that.
i just got a pair of expensive dogs from a friend guy took them to a beagle club in southern newyork and tried them on hare on a dusting of snow he said they were awsome. they havent even barked here. same time my other dogs have run from barely to great. i see that same kind of thing all the time. i guess some of you will never believe it.
i dont have a dog now that i consider cold nosed. i do have some ok dogs that have a ton of experience on snow. .
chris and i guide hunters. we dont pick our days. the difference is in the snow we can see the tracks the hare dont go in a hole. turn a dog loose in a sea of tracks and he doesnt do a thing. i hear that your dogs have no problem with snow but humidity and barometric pressure and winds out of the east gets them. they have good noses but these things really bother them. bev says all dogs have the same nose. we all have the same voice. would you like to hear me sing. not for long you wouldnt. my whole life ive seen dogs that could do it when others couldnt. seen dogs roar on tracks other dogs didnt know were there. now these other dogs would have days they could do a good job, to say that all dogs have the same nose is ridiculous to me. if a dog that sometimes runs his guts out on a certain day. say its 25 above zero. next day it 5 below and i jump a hare right in front of him and he chases it a few feet and can go no farther. well whats the reason. ? now say i get another dog and take him ther a few minutes later. and he runs his guts out. has no problem to run at all. what is the reason. i guess the first dog just didnt want to run that day. ive seen this happen more times than i can count. anybody can make up a million reasons why a dog cant run on a certain day. ive heard so many excuses. so you tell me why can one dog run when another cant. if you tell me its intelligence. than next time i see a dog that cant run cause he is too hot nosed ill just call him stupid. most beagles that i see do not have the nose to run here. either that or they are just stupid. or maybe they are smart enough and have nose enough but just dont want to. you can believe it or not. and the same time they dont there are dogs that will run almost without a loss. pete
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blackdirt beagles
Snowshoe, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen quite a few "big name" lines and a bunch of "backyard bred" lines run including coondogs and even some bird dogs and I never have seen a 100%, never fail line or even dog for that matter. Maybe I've never seen a real gundog, but I would bet against that though. And on that subject, I've got 6th generation pups that I'm working right now, so I would say they are gundogs and not trial dogs. In my opinion after about 3 or 4 generations you can start to call it your own line and breed to expect certain results in the majority of the pups. I say majority because nothing is 100% ever. I wasnt saying my dogs couldnt run because of humidity, or baraometric pressure or whatever, I was saying that all that stuff combined or singularily affects scenting. I wouldnt think I would get too much argument from anyone on that. These are just my opinions. You have beagles as a business, I have them as a hobby and keep between 6 to 10 at any given time. I dont get "skunked" very often when out hunting, but it still does happen and I was just trying to get some thoughts or opinions on why. Can you honestly say your guide service has a 100% success ratio? Maybe you should send one of your males to Chris, as I see he is having trouble finding a good one. Personally I have 2 males that I use for stud and I have a young male that I have high hopes for also. If I ever make it up your way, I'll have to book a hunt. I have never hunted hare, but would like to try it.
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
cold nosed beagles
black dirt if youve had your own line that many generations without a lot of outcrossing then you do have gundogs and not trial dogs. you are one of the few that does. most hunters wont keep that many dogs. it takes that many at least to keep a breeding program going I DO NOT OWN A COLD NOSED DOG. i had some for 15 years, we had deep snow and i bred with coon hounds foxhounds etc. i wasnt willing to keep a dozen dogs . i hunt bear and was hunting coyote . 3 sets of dogs. that would be about 30 dogs at least to keep a pack going and raise replacements.
i did get up to 22 and i think thats when i lost my mind. i had to cut down on dogs. i had two super nosed female and planned on breeding them and they died about a year apart. anyways i did have some cold nosed dogs. i ran time after time when nobody around could. i also had a half breed dog for deep snow. and two winters was so much powder a beagle didnt stand a chance for a month or longer. dogs i have now are not cold nosed. i had 4 days last winter when they could not make a circle. thats the difference between these dogs and the ones i lost .they have had as much experience as any dog could get and they do well most the time. but a cold nosed dog does this as apup. i have been looking for a cold nosed dog my whole life except for 15 years i lucked into some and bred my own. it takes a decent nose to run more than half the time around here. i checked out some dogs that are almost legendary here last week. they couldnt run. i think maybe that cotontails may leave more scent on snow or on crust then hare. i know this is against popular opinion but ive made believers out of a few guys who have brought their dogs here and they couldnt run at all. you ask any hare hunter and hell tell you that with most dogs there are way too many days when you can see a hare and dogs might get a half circle or less out of it. these same dogs can scream on good going. this isnt something ive made up its a fact. ive tried a lot of dogs and most cant do it. a few will learn to do a lot better but this isnt what im looking for. some you could hunt a hundred times and they still cant run if its too cold or crust. i dont want to make anybody mad. i see this problem as really hurting the beagle breed. too many dogs bred on basis of field trials and not what they can do alone in tough running. have i ever been skunked in my guide business. yup. sometimes because of hunters. dogs ran good and hunters didnt get any. this doesnt bother me at all. sometimes because dogs cant run. ive worked hard to have this not happen. it does and drives me nuts. well i have hunters this am . solid crust and windy. what i wouldnt give for a dog that i know could run today. black dirt if you want to run hare here bring them up. weekdays i usually have time. anybody who reads this that has some cold nosed dogs contact me. i can trade a hunt for a pup. once in awhile i can buy a pup. looking for dogs that run everyday. black dirt i get what your saying about humidity and barometric pressure . ive seen days good dogs couldnt do quite what i thought they should. but here its a lot simpler. its almost always snow conditions that make the difference. anybody that has dogs that run when snow is really squeaking loud i want to hear from them pete
i did get up to 22 and i think thats when i lost my mind. i had to cut down on dogs. i had two super nosed female and planned on breeding them and they died about a year apart. anyways i did have some cold nosed dogs. i ran time after time when nobody around could. i also had a half breed dog for deep snow. and two winters was so much powder a beagle didnt stand a chance for a month or longer. dogs i have now are not cold nosed. i had 4 days last winter when they could not make a circle. thats the difference between these dogs and the ones i lost .they have had as much experience as any dog could get and they do well most the time. but a cold nosed dog does this as apup. i have been looking for a cold nosed dog my whole life except for 15 years i lucked into some and bred my own. it takes a decent nose to run more than half the time around here. i checked out some dogs that are almost legendary here last week. they couldnt run. i think maybe that cotontails may leave more scent on snow or on crust then hare. i know this is against popular opinion but ive made believers out of a few guys who have brought their dogs here and they couldnt run at all. you ask any hare hunter and hell tell you that with most dogs there are way too many days when you can see a hare and dogs might get a half circle or less out of it. these same dogs can scream on good going. this isnt something ive made up its a fact. ive tried a lot of dogs and most cant do it. a few will learn to do a lot better but this isnt what im looking for. some you could hunt a hundred times and they still cant run if its too cold or crust. i dont want to make anybody mad. i see this problem as really hurting the beagle breed. too many dogs bred on basis of field trials and not what they can do alone in tough running. have i ever been skunked in my guide business. yup. sometimes because of hunters. dogs ran good and hunters didnt get any. this doesnt bother me at all. sometimes because dogs cant run. ive worked hard to have this not happen. it does and drives me nuts. well i have hunters this am . solid crust and windy. what i wouldnt give for a dog that i know could run today. black dirt if you want to run hare here bring them up. weekdays i usually have time. anybody who reads this that has some cold nosed dogs contact me. i can trade a hunt for a pup. once in awhile i can buy a pup. looking for dogs that run everyday. black dirt i get what your saying about humidity and barometric pressure . ive seen days good dogs couldnt do quite what i thought they should. but here its a lot simpler. its almost always snow conditions that make the difference. anybody that has dogs that run when snow is really squeaking loud i want to hear from them pete