arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

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arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby wildcatfan0309 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:47 am

what style dog is ur choice for lil pack??
i perfer a cleaner running dog when pleasure running or gunning
but seems a swinging dog is the way to go in lil pack trials
but then at the same time i can think of 3 or 4 lil pack world champions and a several lil pack rabbit champs off the top of my head that finished in akc where they promote a clean running dog
ive seen great check dogs that r swingers and then seen great check dogs that r clean tight in the check type dogs
myself i think its how hard and fast they work a check and how quick they claim one no matter what style they run but thats just my opinion and im usally wrong lol so im more interested in what u other board members think
whats ur thoughts, and opinion,and prefrence

thanks for ur input!!
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby T LEE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:03 am

Some days it doesn't take speed or a hound that reaches to win in Little Pack. I’ve judged a Very conservative (Deep South SPO Type hound) to a win in its cast. We had poor scent , poor running and this dog walked out the hard checks. I will admit, any other day and this type of hound may not have scored.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby bigdogpace » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:25 am

SEEMS TO ME THAT LIL PACK PROMOTES A SWING TYPE DOG A DOG THAT CREATES CHECKS I LIKE A FAST AS HE CAN LINE RUNNING DOG
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby rabbitearl » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:33 am

Back in 91 92 and 93 I was the pres of a clup in lp.I remember Everent Morgon coming down here to hele us out.I could not wait for the first trial to come up so now I can see some good rabbit dogs.Well the first trial came and the next one came and on and on and I would go to other trials and see.I found out something.There alot of people out there that had sorry dogs just like my.I would think in the three years that I done lp trials.I ve never seen a pack bring the rabbit back to were it was jump at.Losing the rabbit and then go jump another one.Its hard to run a rabbit with a bunch of ruff dogs in there unless you in a bunch of rabbits.Not saying the dogs are like that now because I ve not been to a lp trial within the last trial of 93.I would say cleaner dogs in there.Its hard to judge a trial if they cannot keep the rabbit going.I had a trial about 5 weeks ago.Guess what, nobody won.They just could not keep the rabbit going.Its like a man told me in 94 when I went to buy dogs.He said,I don t need but one rabbit to show you these dogs can run him

I don t know I like little pack dogs if there clean..I want them to bring the rabbit back.Like I said I don t know how the dogs are now in lp,but in the early years of the 90s around here they were RUFF.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby T LEE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:34 am

I think the biggest thing that people overlook is ALL 5 DOGS in the cast are involved in the 15 second check (Not just the one that caused it). Each dog has the chance to be the Hero and recover the check first.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby Lee Cockman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:34 am

I trial mine and Rabbit hunt mine. Not saying I win in Little Pack. But I kill rabbits for sure. Is it check free races no. But I do not thank anyone runs a dog that is check free every day. That is what you have a pack for. One of the dogs is suppose to clean it up. Bigdog Little Pack does not promote a dog of that nature. However I feel like some guys run a dog that can not run a rabbit which means you will always have checks. I do not thank it is fair to blame it on Little Pack. Maybe the indivdual or a few. I have seen dogs that could not eat my feed that beat me in a cast. I have seen dogs that could not eat my food rabbit hunting. But that does not mean that the next guy want feed him, hunt, or trial the dog. JMHO

I will take a rabbit dog in Little Pack, Midwest, or GUN hunting anyday. JMO :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby Lee Cockman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:39 am

If my dogs can not circle a rabbit he want eat my feed :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: Plus I want him to do it in style not like watching paint dry. But again to eaches on feed what you like run what you like. But a rabbit dog will win more than any rough dog or swingy dog in any format. Unless its AKC SPO down south. (ITS LIKE WATCHING PAINT DRY OR GOLF ON TV)
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby rabbitearl » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:05 am

Lee when your saying slow do you mean these spo trials are slow.I don t know I would think Jimmy Narrow dogs are not slow.I seen some of his dogs run.G Waters done a AKC spo trials down here.I didnot see a bunch of slow dogs.A man came here to run T bone and he want that slow.He ending up selling T Bome for 12 thousand.I would think your stepping on alot of toes when you keep putting them spo boys down.This was about lp not spo.Just saying...

I don t do spo eather.I don t have the money to stay with these guys.So I m not taking up for them bacause I do there trials.Just saying I don t see slow dogs.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby pilotknob » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 am

I belonged and served in a club in the mid 80's,Joined early on when it started.It was as something guys could do with their dogs in the off season and a way to get together for fellowship and improve the breed.The first few years I saw some good hounds,gundogs that accounted for their rabbits and were pretty clean running for the most part.Then as time went on faster and rougher dogs started winning more and more.Guys were going up north and breeding to hare hounds some bred to fox hounds trying to get more speed.With in 4 or 5 years you couldn't put 5 strange hounds together in a cast and have them circle a rabbit.Alot of guys kept 2 packs one to compete with and another to hunt with.That was about the time I got out of it.I haven't been to a LP hunt since the early 90's.I have been to a few PP hunts and they do seem to promote a smoother gundog type of hound more like the LP hounds when they started out.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby T LEE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:47 am

Rabbitearl , the speed and running styles change for SPO events depending on federation . Bloodlines in the Mid-West SPO are different from let’s say the North East or Deep South. It’s hard to rap every SPO speed in the same blanket.

Bloodlines like Branko ,Primetime or Turbo bred hounds may be found in the Mid –West SPO. These dogs for example run much faster and a different style overall than the Deep South SPO dogs. Bloodlines in the Deep South may include Tiny Bull , Robs Diamond or Thorn Gap. Mid-West sytle dogs couldn’t excel in the Deep South just like the Deep South dogs wouldn’t excel in the Mid-West. What Lee is getting at (and correct) is the SPO dogs in our area ARE slower in comparison to the other SPO events throughout the United States.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby wildcatfan0309 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:56 am

thanks for everyones input
didnt intend for this to bash on any formats

to bring the topic back in a lil more detail
i guess what im asking is in a lil pack trial
can a clean fast claiming fast working non swinging dog recover a check as
good and as repeatdly as a dog that swings out of the check area to find a rabbit
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby Alabama John » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:59 am

When points toward winning a trial is based on how many 15 second or longer checks are recovered, it promotes a check creating dog. You can't recover until you lose the rabbit.

If you had one run with very few checks or shorter than 15 second checks, it would get no points and never win.

Interesting to hear folks come back from a cast and say out loud, we did good, had 18-25 checks (loses).

To me and most beaglers, that would be bad, not good.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby Murphy's Kennel » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:06 am

Not only do I think it can and does go watch some of the dogs who consistantly win and place in the big 5 and state hunts run over the last several years! And Al John I agree about the checks but usually what happens the judge is scoring checks about 8 to 10 sec.OR SHORTER(just my opinion)
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby BCBeagles » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:13 am

Haven't competed in Little pack, but a lot of times rough or smooth depends on what you call rough or smooth, JMO.

People may call mine rough and I see them as close and clean, relative to what they have seen is the starting point.

I would take a hard running, line running, quick check dog, in any format and probably always be competitive.
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Re: arha lil pack ruff swingers or clean rabbit dogs???

Postby pilotknob » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:17 am

Alabama John wrote:When points toward winning a trial is based on how many 15 second or longer checks are recovered, it promotes a check creating dog. You can't recover until you lose the rabbit.

If you had one run with very few checks or shorter than 15 second checks, it would get no points and never win.

Interesting to hear folks come back from a cast and say out loud, we did good, had 18-25 checks (loses).

To me and most beaglers, that would be bad, not good.

Well said John,my feelings on the subject exactly.Over the years I have come to firmly beleive that most (not all) checks are mistakes caused by the hounds themselves.I have wished for a long time that there was a format that didn't reward points for checks.I'm not sure there might be one out there I haven't herd of.The question of how to score them without checks is a big one also.I've never came up with a good answer to this either.If there was a way to do it I think it would go along way to promote a better more well rounded,level headed hound.Anyone have any Ideas?
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