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I think both have their days, in which they are more suited to run tighter or get on the edge. I have seen it go both ways as well. A good example would have been Buzz Saw, he was fast by no means, but when the pack screwed up, he would make them pay and keep comin with the rabbit. Another good example would be Dan The Crusher, rougher than a night in jail, I swear Dan knew how to count to 15 and knew how to cut a pack the right way.
Now as for myself Josh, I run a tighter running dog, they know where the point of loss is, but when they find it, they claim it quick and move. If you have a dog or majority of a pack that put a lot of pressure on the rabbit, then a swinging dog is more on the outside looking in. Both of males run fairly clean and have consistently placed and won in a lot of big fives, and have been beat by both types of dogs. When it comes to my preference though, give me a hard hunting and driving, track runnin monster that knows how to work a check quick inside out and move it out. Just my opinion.
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J.C. Blair wrote:I think both have their days, in which they are more suited to run tighter or get on the edge. I have seen it go both ways as well. A good example would have been Buzz Saw, he was fast by no means, but when the pack screwed up, he would make them pay and keep comin with the rabbit. Another good example would be Dan The Crusher, rougher than a night in jail, I swear Dan knew how to count to 15 and knew how to cut a pack the right way.
Now as for myself Josh, I run a tighter running dog, they know where the point of loss is, but when they find it, they claim it quick and move. If you have a dog or majority of a pack that put a lot of pressure on the rabbit, then a swinging dog is more on the outside looking in. Both of males run fairly clean and have consistently placed and won in a lot of big fives, and have been beat by both types of dogs. When it comes to my preference though, give me a hard hunting and driving, track runnin monster that knows how to work a check quick inside out and move it out. Just my opinion.
thanks chad that was the kinda answer i was looking for
my thoughts exactly too
i like dogs to do it honest, not cut swing to be able to get the front. if a hound has to cheat to get the front, then he is runnin with the wrong crowd anyway. the hound should be runnin with slower dogs. that is some of the biggest problems hounds and people face today. guys go out and get hounds that are slower than what they are actually runnin, this is what causes your hounds to cut swing. if they actually paid more attention to what the hounds actual speed was then there would not be near as much of this. cause if a hound had the actual speed it needed then it would not have to cut and swing out to get the lead, he/she could just take it.
Don't have rough dogs any more..but I've owned an ran as most. I can tell you braniacs one thing a dog don't swing cause they don't have the foot...they swing cause they are smarter not slower..maybe to smart for there own good but it takes a dumb dog to follow a rabbit it takes a smarter one catch it
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Lil.Bredemeier wrote:Don't have rough dogs any more..but I've owned an ran as most. I can tell you braniacs one thing a dog don't swing cause they don't have the foot...they swing cause they are smarter not slower..maybe to smart for there own good but it takes a dumb dog to follow a rabbit it takes a smarter one catch it
thanks for ur input
id say ur about to get real popular here in just a few minutes lol
I tell you guys,if they had little pack here in md and maybe they do i have the dog for them.Tough as nails but will cut and swing quick. to get in the front
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Lil.Bredemeier wrote:They swing cause they are smarter not slower..maybe to smart for there own good but it takes a dumb dog to follow a rabbit it takes a smarter one catch it
must be those BAOTB DOGS!!!
Ya cause they know 75 yards up that it hooked 60 yards to the right and sat down in a brush pile surrounded by old christmas trees and they can catch it when it pops out the other side when the rest of the pack drives it out of there!! Bunch of idiot line dogs!!! Should all have been smarter than to follow the rabbit should have followed the big swinger and not run any rabbit but catch it instead!!! What a joke!!
For a lot of years I judged and held a Master of Hounds license for A.R.H.A. Little Pack.I'll say that both dogs can and do win in that format.As has been mentioned a lot of it depends on the conditions ie scenting,terrain,cover,what the pack is made up of and like it or not the person who is judging them.
On days when the hounds can run high scent in open terrain and spotty cover I've seen the fast,reaching,hard hitting hounds absolutely bury / embarass the slower,cleaner type of hound.Makes you wonder why the guy even brought him.
On those dry,hot days where the scent is basically evaporated by 8:00 A.M. and before second round even gets to the woods or where the cover is nothing but a dense tangle of briar,honey suckle and multi- flora rose I've also seen that closer and cleaner hound lock on to his rabbit and the other type of hound struggle to even smell it or follow it crawling on his belly.
The one thing you have to admit though about Little Pack is it DOES reward the accomplishment no matter what style YOU prefer.If you strike first,jump first,check first you'll get your points.If you screw up and go backwards,don't produce the rabbit,are mouthy and pull dogs out of the check or run off game you won't end up the winner [at least you shouldn't. LOL. ]
Lil.Bredemeier wrote:They swing cause they are smarter not slower..maybe to smart for there own good but it takes a dumb dog to follow a rabbit it takes a smarter one catch it
must be those BAOTB DOGS!!!
Ya cause they know 75 yards up that it hooked 60 yards to the right and sat down in a brush pile surrounded by old christmas trees and they can catch it when it pops out the other side when the rest of the pack drives it out of there!! Bunch of idiot line dogs!!! Should all have been smarter than to follow the rabbit should have followed the big swinger and not run any rabbit but catch it instead!!! What a joke!!
FCGD Lprch pprch GLOMSKI'S BIG TIME
LpGrch GLOMSKI'S CRIMSON FLAME
Lil.Bredemeier wrote:They swing cause they are smarter not slower..maybe to smart for there own good but it takes a dumb dog to follow a rabbit it takes a smarter one catch it
must be those BAOTB DOGS!!!
Ya cause they know 75 yards up that it hooked 60 yards to the right and sat down in a brush pile surrounded by old christmas trees and they can catch it when it pops out the other side when the rest of the pack drives it out of there!! Bunch of idiot line dogs!!! Should all have been smarter than to follow the rabbit should have followed the big swinger and not run any rabbit but catch it instead!!! What a joke!!
I should have known the wangster beagler would post on mine come on down john il show you a real bad azz out of the box..
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LpGrch GLOMSKI'S CRIMSON FLAME
Everyone has their own description of a rabbit dog. That's why you see Midwest field trialers follow certain judges to champion out their dogs. If you want to win or place your gonna follow a judge who likes your style of dog. Some judges like a dog that push harder and a little rougher. While another judge likes a cleaner dog they probably won't place a rougher dog.
Being Bill Bredemeier's nephew, Jake got to see some of real nice little pack dogs in his life. Got to meet some legendary little pack field trialers as well. He has more knowledge than both John and I. I might not agree with Jake on everything but I do respect his facts and what he grew up around.
Do I like a swinger, not really. I do like a dog on the edge, not swinging out 50 yards but a dog that will search out of the check area within 20 to 40 feet. I don't trial enough to care on if a dog stays real tight in the check. No doubt I want a hound with a good sense of direction and know where the check is. I want that rabbit on the move as much as possible. I want him to run as hard and quick as he can go but as slow as needed when it comes to gearing down.
But that's me.
Last edited by Casey Harner on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
casey is rite jake prob has seen more lil pack dogs or just hounds in general than most.
i like a dog that works a quick check and will get out on edge not swinging though.
u will win with both and loose wih both in all fomats
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I could be wrong idk but the fastest an I mean fast dogs I've seen were swingers an they didn't ha e to swing they just did...period...I beleave most of it is bred in them not caused..thanks for the kind words boys foxy well have to hook up an run with harner so we can all see our BAOTB dogs run
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I believe it's both bred in and caused. Being bred in, it's easier to cause, if that makes any sense.
I just remember when Jessie wanted to breed High Tower to Dottie, he wanted her check ability because most of the hounds would swing off the check to quick and be up on the hill when she found it again down in the gully wash.
When your running good cover and there's good population of rabbits, it's like pups in a starting pen with to many rabbits, they learn to gamble as the odds are in their favor they'll hit a rabbit somewhere out ahead. jmho
to get in the front
must be those BAOTB DOGS!!!