line control

[hounddog]

Can someone explain to me what the use of line control is all about. I think it was something labeled back when there was one type of beagle. The walkie talkies or peanut rollers because they had nothing else to judge a hound on. They never shut up nor did they go fast enough to ever break down.
Now, a little about me. I've been raising hounds for forty years, starting out with beagles, then coon hounds then fox hounds to bear hounds and finally back to beagles.
Not once in my life have I ever heard a fox, bear or coon hunter say " I would have gotten more coons, bears or foxes if my hounds had better line control."
A hound was bred to run to catch and accomplishment over style. I can kill just as many if not more rabbits with a hound that might skirt a brush pile or reach in the check area as you can with a so called "great line control dog."
Somebody please help this ol hillbilly understand this phase line control and why it so important!
I do believe a man should raise and train what suits him so don't go there.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[Rabbitridgerunner]

Jim, I couldn't agree with you more. I think line control just gives everyone something to talk about. Your phrase, run to catch says it all.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

you r right jim whatever suits you .

let me try to tell u like i see it . i like line control ,i like speed and drive ..love great hunt . if my pack comes across a roadbed out where i am running /hunting i like all the dogs together as a pack ,working together not trying to just outrun each other creating checks ..my dogs are competetive and i dont want the same dog in front all the time and the same dog better not be behind all the time .but i want them on the line the rabbit ran within a given range that being about 120 yards span at worstr hopefully lol.
but run together as a pack acting as a pack as beagles are supposed to be pack aninmals ..a dog that skirts a brush pile i aint hating on him,,but i dont prefer it . i dont want dogs swinging 30 yards out of the check area ..wher ethey lost the rabbit i want them to look inside the first 10 yards first .. i said thats what i want not what i get everytime lol. but most the timer i do. but dont stay in there if u dont find it there go look for it ///

the reason u dont hear that about other species is they run bigger straighter lines normally a rabbit twist and turns or cottasontails do . so if a rabbit dog tries to run fast and stright its gfoing to over run badly causing checks and ruining what could be a good race...

[fasttrackpa]

Your hounds are not gonna catch many rabbits with out some kind of line control...unless you are running whippets or grayhounds. Fox Bear and Coon all have more scent than a cottontail, even with snowshoes you can get away with less line control than a cottontail.
Here is some line control, I want my hounds to make every turn like this. (they don't) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFJ_DFnnRPs

[deerhost]

Preacher hit it on the head. That is a great post. Speed is good, I love speed as long as they stay on the rabbit. Speed with out staying on the rabbit, those dogs are a dime a dozen. Fasttracks clip explains it all.

[T LEE]

I run with several different groups of guys. I try to expose my dogs to as many different running styles as possible. I’ve judged a few casts where the dog’s owner claimed to have a smooth running, clean, locks on the line and never gets rattled by the pressure type of dog. Most of these guys that make such a claim have never exposed their dog to any real pressure. They either run by themselves or only with other dogs that share their same running style. I remember riding out to a cast once and one of the owner’s bragging his dog up and making the earlier statements. We will call the dog Mr. Clean. The first check we had Mr. Clean put his head down and started working. Another dog in the cast (which recovered about 90% of the checks) drove out of the check area so hard it took Mr. Clean and 3 other dogs a good 4 minutes just to get back in the race. After about 4 times of Mr. Clean having the rug snatched out from under him and running for his life to play catch up…….. Mr. Clean was picking his head up in the check area and looking for the other dog driving the check out. By the end of the cast Mr. Clean was bug eyed, shaken and rattled. MR. Clean was sticking very close to the other dog and no longer even looking for the rabbit during the check. Some guys like line control. I like Rabbit control. I’ve seen dogs that break down so much in a check that they stayed in one area blowing holes in the ground. I would much rather have a dog reach out a little, grab it and roll on.

[BigWoods]

Not sure if my stating that my dog has good line control in another post brought this up or not? If they all run the same "run to catch" style with no difference there wouldn't be so many formats to fit a certain style of dog. The bloodline of beagles with more foot generally do not have as tight of line control as a bloodline with less foot in my opinion. On the average, I would say you take a beagle with a lot of foot but has longer losses and a beagle with less foot that has very few losses and they will circle a rabbit in approximately the same amount of time. Conditions, nose and other attributes will cause faster and slower runs, but on an average the steady run will circle as fast as any others.

Same with your coonhound analogy. Actually coonhounds (and yes, I currently hunt them) have different track running styles between breeds as well. Generally speaking a walker will drift the track while a bluetick tends to run the track. I guess you could say the bluetick has more "line control" than the walker.

Maybe line control isn't the correct terminology to be used but have heard it used in my 20-25 years of having beagles. I've ran from ubgf style hounds to large pack style hounds and some in between. Heard the term in every format and even pleasure running which is 90% of what I do anymore.

[sbeagler]

Your hounds are not gonna catch many rabbits with out some kind of line control...unless you are running whippets or grayhounds. Fox Bear and Coon all have more scent than a cottontail, even with snowshoes you can get away with less line control than a cottontail.
Here is some line control, I want my hounds to make every turn like this. (they don't) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFJ_DFnnRPs

Yep some dogs are like hippee dogs running like they smoked weed and yippee dogs in this clip wow ya style. You can call it hook up, line control, smoking i call it wow ya hook up power Dogs like that are excitinggggg! Keepers in my book. Like the living on the edge style staying hooked up fixing their mistakes from running with power then bam shot out of a cannon off to the races. Good video clip to show the newbies what run to catch means yippee wow ya.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

A fox and a bear leave a trace a dog could find for hours... You don't really need line control. A rabbit makes constant circle with jerks, runs, hops, skirts, in between. That is the only way they can survive. If you have a dog with no line control you will have lots of break downs.

It is just a different game with rabbits.. I thinking running wide and skirting is fine but the dog better have a darn good nose to find his mistakes or you won't have very much fun hunting.

[Lee Cockman]

I have to jump in with my cent and a half. Not sure that it will make two cents. But my line control rabbit dogs will catch just as many as any line control dogs out there. Steve you know I can many of rabbits. I run rabbit dogs not peanut pushers. My dog do not straddle a line. But they can run a rabbit to the gun and most of the time they look good doing it. Not a one hit wonder when there has to be perfect conditions for them to run. I gun hunt first run dogs second and trial third. Do not brag much but I have a pack of Rabbit Dogs kill as many as pretty much anyone on the east coast. Catch as many as anyone in my neck of the woods. Never seen my line control bunch need to straddle a track to catch one. JMHO

[sbeagler]

yep u got some good hounds win and place lot of the trials too hunted with you so i can say we got our share for sure. T-Bo is a really nice hound and hear his pups are turning heads too. Hope all is well with you guys tell your dad hello like his Code Blue male too that won and placed at some the S&D hunts i judged him at.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

line control - lock on a track and drive the hell out of it! without cheating (skirting,swinging,cutting,slashing)..i understand "accomplishment over style" but i want mine to do it right.

[littlewoody]

Preacher hit it on the head. That is a great post. Speed is good, I love speed as long as they stay on the rabbit. Speed with out staying on the rabbit, those dogs are a dime a dozen. Fasttracks clip explains it all.

+1

[hounddog]

There are a lot of good replys guys but I still don't see the importance of great line control over a hound that has descent line control. The same amount of rabbits are being killed with hounds that are swingers as there is with the line control hounds. I know for a fact that nobody kills more rabbits then Lee Cockman and I've run against him in many trials and basically the same bloodlines.
Maybe as someone said, it's just a different liking but you always see it in the for sale section that this so and so hound has good line control. Maybe a sells gimmick! What do you think.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[hounddog]

without cheating (skirting,swinging,cutting,slashing) "accomplishment over style" but i want mine to do it right.

LaMarr, there's the part that I don't understand. Show me any breed standard books on beagles and prove that Skirting, swinging and cutting and slashing is cheating.
To me, they are running the rabbit and not the rabbit track.
Tracks don't fill my belly to well. Rabbits do!

hounddog
Jim Umbarger