Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)

Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett

Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Emma's Beagles » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:25 pm

When you guys have done heavy inbreeding, father to daughter half mates what plus and negative traits came up most often
Emma's Beagles
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:39 pm

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Lone Pine Beagles » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:15 pm

The traits you'll notice are the traits that your dogs have.
ie: cold nosed, hot nosed, strong hunt, weak hunt, on the line, off the line, etc.
Both parents should be complete dogs.
Dogs lacking in ability will produce the same.

I like a linebred female outcrossed to a good male.
Seems to produce consistency, with hybrid vigor!

Then eventually take the hybrid pup and cross it back into the line.
You could go paternal or maternal, depending on which direction you wanted to go?

My secret weapons are 7 days old. Linebred female bred to one of the best males out there.
Time will tell.

;)
Lone Pine Beagles
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:17 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby gunslinger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:48 pm

You are correct about the traits showing up being what is in that line, but the first cross will produce no consistency, it takes several years of breeding,culling, and breeding the best back to get any consistency. You are absolutely incorrect about hybrid vigor, it doesn't come from breeding an outcross it comes from crossing two different species. For example you wont get hybrid vigor from breeding an out cross beagle , or even from breeding a beagle to a walker you will only get hybrid vigor when you breed a dog to a wolf,coyote, fox or some other species, Hybrids are only created when you breed two different species.
gunslinger
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:22 pm

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Emma's Beagles » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:22 pm

Did you see more bad things come up then good or balanced or what. Thinking of breeding a daughter to daddy
Emma's Beagles
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:39 pm

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Lone Pine Beagles » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:38 pm

Gun sling,

Breeding Better Beagles pg. 34

"The reason crossbreeding is so popular with animal and plant breeders is that when two strains, or bloodlines in the case of beagles, are crossed to make a hybrid, a phenomenon called hybrid vigor usually results." Rev. John Parks
Lone Pine Beagles
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:17 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Ron Conroe » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:22 am

Some of the good traits you get are bug eyed, bull legged, short eared, idiots. :shock:
Ron Conroe
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby bill (flint river ) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:27 am

do u have the stones to put down the ones that need it. no way would I ever breed back that close. because of the traits u may get u will also blow up there faults and u may have some poor health hounds.
bill (flint river )
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: lapeer mi.

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby sbeagler » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:23 am

Having taken both a basic genetics and molecular genetics course at NC State Unviversity, I still dont claim to be an expert but can give sound advice. Inbreeding intensifies both the best and bad traits. So what would define an inbred cross ? ie father x daughter, son x mother, sibling crosses, in animal breeding studies the offspring were found to be overall smaller, developmentally slower, sometimes had heart defects,and a host of other problems. Unless you had 2 absolute perfect individuals possibily you could expect better results still you would lose hybrid vigor, and there may be other unknown internal health defects not observable to the naked eye. From my many years of owning hounds mainly beagles and fox hounds I have seen good hounds from the following crosses considered line breeding grandfather to grand daughter,grand son to grarndmother, uncle to niece, nephew to aunt. some half sibling crosses-still had culls, and first cousin crosses lol kissing cousins.I personally believe you better know your hounds faults & strengths to choose the correct sire x dam combinations to perfect the intended cross or the desired outcome likely will be horrendous. A classical example of a good line breeding program would be Branko Krpans kennel. Branko raises a lot of litters and is careful to access his individual hounds he uses resulting in a higher success ratio.He basically learned this when he started breeding his livestock even before he owned his hounds Hopefully this shed some light on or simplified things some for you.If you study his hounds for 5 to 6 generations you will have an idea. There is no magic formula just common sense and knowing your hounds. None of us want pups from a pig in a poke breeding.Best of luck. Some interesting reading http://www.genome.gov/12511476
sbeagler
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:07 pm

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Trackstar » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:41 am

Ron Conroe wrote:Some of the good traits you get are bug eyed, bull legged, short eared, idiots. :shock:

I think I got one of those you just describe her like you was here looking at my lil Stella dog. I bred a dubble turbo dog to a dubble jack of all trades male and got 5 females 0 males. Both dogs are big dogs that i bred, but 1 pup turn out the size of the parents the other 4 will be 13"
Trackstar
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:39 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby lananbay » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:59 am

I don't comment on this board very often. However breeding is my favorite topic. Before you knock inbreeding look at a Pedigree on Branko's Ali-Baba. You mention Branko above Ali-Baba mother Branko's Double Ann wasn't a close bred female to her mother Anna's Ann. Branko's Double Ann was a result of a father x daughter cross male name Branko's Conman. Branko's were once offered $20,000 for Ail-Baba and they turned it down.
Ali-Baba was a producer NUFF SAID!
Destry Lopez
LANAN BAY KENNELS


Hunting hounds by RANGER DAN & BLUE NINJA
lananbay
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:45 am

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Ron Conroe » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:48 am

And There is a fool born every day to... Nuff said. :roll:
Ron Conroe
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby eddywilliams » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:58 am

Lanabay you ever watch Ali-Baba run or many of his offspring ?
Image-
IFC BEAVER CREEKS KICK AZZ
FTCH NLPC CRYON BO DIDDLEY
AWFUL BAWLIN G
RABBIT RIDGE PARIS
RABBIT RIDGE LACY
eddywilliams
 
Posts: 3068
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: ohio

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby lananbay » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:34 am

Eddie,
No I never did see Ali-Baba run or any of his offspring. I only know he had a couple good years his offspring were placing well enough to put him in the big league with the other hounds Like Ranger Dan, Blue Ninja and he did it not on steroids!

I don't own any Branko hounds its a very very slim chance I ever will I have a small kennel and I'm happy with what I currently have.
Not because Branko bloodline doesn't suit me I have never seen a Branko hound run.
I'm not saying Abi- Baba was a great hound the best hound or the best hound there ever will be. Just the only inbred hound I know that had some good numbers once in the past didn't mean to sound like I was blowing him up sorry.
My point I don't think it's fair to change someone's mind about inbreeding by assuming all the pups will have major problems in looks or health. Just because someone is scared to try it once you should not discourage others that's all I'm saying. Could care less about Ali-Baba or his offspring running style. But there has to have been some judges that liked his offspring.
Just my two cents.

Ron for your info Three months ago I made a father x daughter cross the father is a well know International Field Champion.
None of the pups have bug eyes, short ears or deformed legs.

There healthy as they should be.
Today must be your negative post day your two for two.
Destry Lopez
LANAN BAY KENNELS


Hunting hounds by RANGER DAN & BLUE NINJA
lananbay
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:45 am

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Ron Conroe » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:59 pm

Lets make it 3 for 3, just keep doing it you will.
Ron Conroe
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

Postby Dave Swiger » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:16 pm

i currently have two dogs that are the product of line bred/inbred of half brother to half sister. unless i told you, you would never know. all four parents are top notch rabbit dogs. my two dog are run to catch, top notch rabbit hounds, with extreme hunt.. when concidering breeding inbred or out cross, dogs should be the best rabbit hounds you can get first. i love my inbred dogs, will have more in the future.
Dave Swiger
 

Next

Return to Just Talkin' Dawgs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests