Beagles worse than. 20 years ago

[Emma's Beagles]

Are they worse over all than 20 years ago.. I mean seems like hunt and honest mouth is a thing of the past

[littlewoody]

I see less hunt in hounds for sure !

[Lone Pine Beagles]

I had this very same conversation with Kevin Hale the other day.
Trialing is not helping the beagle as a hunting dog.
We're seeing more speed, less nose, reduced hunt.
Plus the odds of getting a "good" pup...

The breeders can change this immediately!

rabbit dog x rabbit dog = rabbit dogs

[huntall50]

So we need to focus less on breeding pedigrees and breed rabbit dogs? What a novel idea to improve the breed!

[Ken Yerian]

Some are worse and some are better. I've followed Beagles since I could walk and have attended every format of Beagle Trials invented . I think the first AKC trial I attended was in the fifties at Perry County Ohio. It was a brace trail and all of the dogs were rabbit hounds. The last brace trial i went was in71 or 72 and they were really walkie Talkies by then.
I think it was hardest to find a good Rabbit Dog in the 70's. Things picked up in the 80's when I discovered that dogs from Michigan and New York could really drive a rabbit and Mt Zion Pete and Dingus Macrae produced the dogs I liked to run in the rclaimed strip mines. I do think that the 90's might have been the best time to see some Really Good rabbit dogs as there was many oppurtunities to trial one at ARHA, UKC and the Midwest AKC Clubs. Plus there was a lot of good places to hunt.Attendance has really droped off at the trials for several different reasons but I believe that there are still a lot of hunters raising good dogs that will get the job done the right way. They are just not going to the trials as much. Could be the economy.

[heus]

I've never been to a trial but in my opinion the popularity of speed over everything else could be hurting the breed. It seems the pendulum has swung completely opposite of the brace walkie-talkies. Hunting desire and jumping ability is most important to me, followed by speed with line control.

[Wicker's Beagles]

One needs to put the blame of inferior weaker, over competitive, no nose, race for the front, false line running, idiot acting dogs where it belongs, it's the Judges misguided decision making, plain & simple.

Many judges in all formats for the past several years have been awarding plus points to dogs that should be eliminated from their cast for cheating and disrupting everything, handlers obviously witness this and begin to promote dogs that the judges will like, they will not hunt, can't find a rabbit , can't run a track smoothly without creating their own needless checks.
They are mostly worthless as hunting dogs, you couldn't gun hunt one of them solo and harvest bunnies if your life depended on it, many of them are never ever actually gun hunted, they are strictly trial or pen ran dogs with no exposure to real hunting situations where game is harvested.

After a handler wins a hunt or finishes an FC title with one of these inferior counterfeit rabbit dogs, everybody with a female beagle will run to it and breed for more of the same. It's called Fad breeding.... It's absolutely ruining the beagle as a true hunting companion.

Luckily a few of us don't cave in to the latest champion of the week motto and are still hunting with and breeding dogs that perform with Hunt, Jump Ability , & brains to run a track without creating needless checks, the real hunting dogs have gears and will run as fast as conditions permit and can walk it out down a dirt road if they have to without quitting.

[BCBeagles]

There are several champions in every format that can get it done, PERIOD...

Get off the couch and find the one that fits your needs. The very best dogs may not be in the hollow you live in. I am speaking from experience, not he said, she said.

Until you see better how do you know you even have an average hound?? YOU DON'T....

I have been fortunate to see some very nice hounds run, FC's, Grand Hunting Beagle Champions,IFC's and such, the guys at the trials every weekend. The Denny Dugans, Jeff Martins, Matt Marple, Kevin Wethington, Ray Smalley, Joe Clark, Joe Kuklenski, Brandon Labombard and many others I am missing, not just AKC guys. I have seen what they bring, be it just one time in some cases. There dogs hunted and ran the crap out of a rabbit, were they perfect, heck no, but they consistantly get it done!!! That is why there names are on the results list every week. People want to whine about not winning and this and that and dogs aren't as good today as they were 20 years ago, ever think you had dogs that weren't that good 20 years ago and you thought they were barn burners cause you never saw any other hounds hunt or run??? Yes, lets be realistic here!

One thing I did not see was imposters, I just don't see what these folks are talking about saying that titled hounds can't get it done or are "imposters". I find it funny, but what do I know. I just try to breed the dogs I HUNT with to the dogs I HUNT with or would hunt with....

[Newt]

Are they worse over all than 20 years ago.. I mean seems like hunt and honest mouth is a thing of the past

Its gone in selected strains, maybe? I've got five pups, five months old tomorrow. All hunt, in the thickest briars and honeysuckle imaginable. Yesterday I took them out, 84 degrees F., with an older 9 mo old pup, One of the younger pups jumped the rabbit and got most of the checks. They ran it for about an hour, round and round in those thick blackberry briars. These pups are from a half brother, half sister mating from a Kalagha Bitch.
No they are not for sale.
A buddy has three that he paid a lot of money for that are about a year old. I've tried to start them several times and sometimes they will go with the running hounds. He took them out Thursday to run with another friend. They are half heeler and half setter, according to their performance.

[Emma's Beagles]

You know what they say everybody has got an opinion, but overall dogs of today consistently show many more faults than of the past, maybe I'm just isolated and haven't seen a good dog, but I have bought them from the biggest names out there out of the big IFC and FC and they all have had major faults. Maybe it's just my luck

[19rabbit52]

Seems like back in the 60's and 70's I was isolated. Just about all the dogs were good. My 88 year old father still expects all beagles to "start". In the last 15 years I have seen alot more dogs. I've got to say I think yesteryear absolutely better IMO.

[BCBeagles]

What are we calling "good", is it a dog that can jump a rabbit in areas with an abundance of them and circles it to the gun under favorable conditions(most can do that)? Can it handle pack pressure, can it "fix" others mistakes(many fall short here)? Can it still function in thin rabbits and terrible tracking conditions(again many fall short)? Does it have the "it" factor? Does it excell when others fail? The standard is still held high by some, but you won't get there hounds cheap and you SURE as HECK dont see there culls for sale on the board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not being a smart mouth, but I feel we classify many "good" dogs when they are sufficient, or average, and we sure throw around the word "great" on waaaayyyy too many hounds.
JMO,

The one thing I have for sure seen in the FC's or IFC's I have seen is consistancy, no matter what the hounds around them or conditions they were given they gave it 110% when others were making mistakes. IMO, we take don't ever give enough credit to the blue collar hound that rolls with it rain or shine. MANY want flashy and on "the edge" to win. Those hounds excell on SOME days, do they on all??


Our hounds or yesteryear were average hounds, on good days they did fine. On bad days we made excuses for them.... excuses bother me alot.

I KNOW all hounds have holes, some just have smaller holes... Good running to all!

[Ken Yerian]

I like the dogs I have right now just as good as the ones I had in the 50's and 60's and some of them a lot better. As far as some other dogs I'd really like to Gun hunt over Branko's Doc Watson. I'm sure that you could kill abunch of rabbits with dogs out Red River Runner. All of the ones that I have ran with all had great hunt and search. There is a bunch of other good ones out there that I would feed. Some of them are never trialed except in the field and under the gun. If any of you guys remember what it was like to travel to a field Trial in the 50's before the interstate system was built you know what a struggle it was to even find the clubhouse let alone travel through every little town, hit every stop light. It is a lot easier to check out dogs now with the internet, GPS, more trials. If you don't like what you have just start looking around. It's out there. You might have to do a little work and sort some out but it will be worth it.

[Alabama John]

One thing that has hurt beagles and rabbit hunting is the amount of Deer and other things out there for beagles to get on that were not there back then. Same with places to rabbit hunt as anywhere you wanted to turn loose was OK and the owners would just wave at you if they saw you. many would come to sit and listen to your dogs.

Today, you must have written permission to be on land that the owner might live several states a way and who is not even known or get a ticket.

Also, today so much good rabbit hunting land is now leased Deer or hog hunting clubs, many who are out of state hunters that parole to make sure you don't get a dog on it or it will be shot, that we hunted on all our lives but not allowed to step foot on today.
Dogs would probably be just as good as our mixed beagles of yesteryear if they too ran loose and jumper their own rabbits and ran as much as those dogs did back then.

Nothing like the memories of waking up the whole house out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night and have some of your children come outside on the porch to sit on your lap and your wife make some early coffee and country breakfast for all of you to sit and listen to the dogs run with their just started pups that woke you all up running a big one through the back yard. What a blessing to hear the young ones calling out the names of the dogs as they recognized their mouths.

Dogs today and yesterday compared? Same for hunters back then and today. Today they do not have the opportunities they had back then nor the need to jump as much so they do not learn how and where to find a rabbit.

[pcable]

I hunted grade dogs for years, and have now had registered beagles about 10 years. I haven't been to many field trials at all. But I think the dogs are a lot better in most ways. For example, the availabilty of shock collars have elimintated a lot of problems. Such as trash running, handling, and overall hard heads. When I first started beagling you could turn a dog loose and you didn't have any idea when you would be able to catch that dog. Seemed like they knew that you couldn't get to them fast enough and they took advantage of it.
I think some bloodlines have breed the hunt out of the dogs of today and it's not the dog's fault, it's the breeders. I have tried almost every bloodline and cross that's out there. I have the bloodlines that I like now and I'm breeding them myself. I breed for hunt first and foremost, because IF A DOG WON'T HUNT, IT CAN'T JUMP RABBITS. Next I breed for running abilty; line control, check abilty, and speed. I like speed but it is less important than hunt by far. I want a dog that can push a rabbit but run a good line.
Like someone else said, eveyone has their own opinion, I guess that is about as true as any statment ever made. If we all liked the same style and bloodline, I'd say it would get a little boring. Like a fellow my Dad worked with used to say "Oh well, to each his own".
I think overall beagling is a more enjoyable sport now, the dogs may be a different story depending on what you like and what you've seen and owned.