The American Beagler Forum

Some opinions on the greenbay line good or bad thank-you

There good little hounds most are medium fast good line control and have good nose for the winter. Some can be a little mouthy.

snow nose, fast and good control. vary good in the kennel .but a little mouthy. I have one now 11 month old. I like him. over all nice rabbit dog.

I bred Shirleys HK Kit Kat to GreenBay Butkus, she is HeliProp bred. What i got was the best cross i have made in 30 years. Very athletic,Above average nose, great hunt, line control, and mouth's that make the hair stand up on my arms. At 16 months their speed is upper medium and they have a knack for knowing where the point of loss is. As far as extra mouth goes, there's none in my litter. Reggie Mcgrady started the whole litter, after two days he said i would be proud of them. I've watched these little guys day after day, cut a track that other dogs didn't know existed and never say a word. Work the track and jump the rabbit. They will get to see Mr. Hare come November. Can't wait.

Alan Plum

Allan,

There will hopefully be four hounds out of Butkus on our trip. I hope you bring both of yours. I will be packing both of mine.

Should be some decent runs.

Green Bay- blue collar hounds, good hunt, above average nose, line running specialists, overall good hounds.
Not always the flashiest of hounds, but so consistent they can beat you any day! Check dogs from anywhere in
Pack, medium to upper medium speed. " extra mouth" is usually just more nose than the others. Bark early and
9.5 times out of 10 a rabbit is about to get jumped....

Keep putting them out Mr. Green Bay, Joe Kuklenski, thanks for the ones I am fortunate to have!

BCBeagles wrote:Allan,

There will hopefully be four hounds out of Butkus on our trip. I hope you bring both of yours. I will be packing both of mine.

Should be some decent runs.

Green Bay- blue collar hounds, good hunt, above average nose, line running specialists, overall good hounds.
Not always the flashiest of hounds, but so consistent they can beat you any day! Check dogs from anywhere in
Pack, medium to upper medium speed. " extra mouth" is usually just more nose than the others. Bark early and
9.5 times out of 10 a rabbit is about to get jumped....

Keep putting them out Mr. Green Bay, Joe Kuklenski, thanks for the ones I am fortunate to have!

How come i get keep getting screwed on these trips?

Lol...... Scared of your dog power......probably all it is.

Take care!

Yea Right.Alan called years ago and of course i could not go. Dang he never ask again. I am gonna dog up someday though, may even buy a cull somebody cant put down but eventually i will pocess dog power.

Jim

What difference do you see from the mtn state blood vs the Green Bay line???

Havin had either until now. Just wanted to try something different. I have a 3yr old with Ranger Dan in him, but that's about as close I've had to Green Bay Butkus. Just bought pups when they were 8weeks old from Lowell Smith of Gilbert WV.

Joe is a great guy and a good friend.

He breeds for the smaller 13" hounds, but they can go.
Joe met up with us from the Hunted Hare group a couple of years ago with Paw King, he kept right up with our 15" hounds in snow.
In fact, by the end of the day, King was in front. Joe has those hounds rock hard and in shape for the LPH trials.

Size, MT St has bigger dogs, a little bigger mouths on Mt St as well. Some a little wider in the check(Mt. St.), but they know where the point of loss is as well.
Lots of Buds pups are blue, you got to deal with that......LOL. Lowell just ask me this morning about "what you got against the blue dogs?" I like to give him a hard time on them.

I laughed and said, nothing as long as they hunt and run like Bud....

I have seen Shooter dogs that opened earlier than others, but most of the time a rabbit was very, very close and jumpable.
I have seen some dogs with Shooter in them that were average hunters. Not a bunch, but a few.

The MT. St. dogs have tight mouths from what I saw and open when a rabbit is running. I have not seen them open early. Some like this better, but to me if a rabbit is produced either style is fine.

Mt. St.'s that I have seen probably had a little better top end speed than the Green Bay hounds I run, but they are close.

BOTH lines use there noses to help them jump rabbits.

The direct links I have purchased from Joe K. have very good hunt, busy and will look for a rabbit.
They have decent to good mouths and run a line like it is supposed to be run, gearing up and down with scent.
Good track and they run head up and upper medium to fast. Bad scent they work more methodically and move with the scent at a slower pace.
They are EXTREMELY point of loss oriented, they don't forget where last scent is and just move off, they work and work, and I personally LOVE this about them!
These are the traits I like, may not fit all.

What I have seen out of both impressed me. EXTREME hunt from MT. ST. dogs, leave and get gone hunt, Green Bay more medium speed hunt and
move in a more grubbing style with hunt.

I plan on breeding FC Green Bay Million Dollar Baby(as good a hound as I will every own, fits my wants in all areas) to Mt. St. Blue Bud in a few months. Pups spoken for, but excited to see if they can blend to produce a nice hound.

**I have said this before and will say it again, Joe K. is the architect behind Green Bay, and is willing to sell his TOP quality hounds for the right money. They may not suit all, but I am confident some would like the way they do things.**

Mt. St. (via Lowell and Mark, originally the late Bernard Mullenax) and Green Bay (via Joe K.) are lines I will have for years to come. I am a gunhunter first and foremost, they make for a good hound that will account for game(hunt it) and make for a nice race(accurately track it).

I am fortunate to have been exposed to both!!!

BOTH lines are super gun dogs where it matters most. I put stock in what kind of hunt I can enjoy with them, not titles.....BOTH lines have no excuse, get it done rabbit dogs....
sure there are some culls in both, show me a line that doesn't have average and/or culls and I will go watch them run to!!!

Neither one of these lines are the "perfect" hound to my exposure. I call it like I see it. I enjoy very much what I have and to me that is what is important!! The "perfect" hound may exist, but I have yet to see that one, but I will gladly keep looking.....LOL.

I will just say if and when you see a Butkus pup or dog
for sale don't over look it. They are as good as you will
find, over all no mater what female was used in the cross
Ol Butkus will reproduce a well above average hound in
all areas. I have seen enough Butkus pups to know.

As far as speed if your running them with 13" dogs there FAST
If your running them with most 15" packs there upper med.
but can and will cut a pack to death if there a little ruff and
It just takes a little over running to make a Butkus pup show
the pack how to do it.
Over all I haven't really seen the extra mouth, to me that's not
what to expect. Out of 12 or 15 Butkus pups I have seen run only
2 had any extra mouth but a few of them would give mouth when
they lined out the track and could move out with it. I have 3 Butkus
pups and there all out of deferent females and there is 0 extra mouth
in them. They might be a little tight if anything.

Question for you guys.What do you consider a "line" as it was posted here in regards to the "Greenbay line"?
When I think of a "line"I usually equate that to some form of linebreeding within a family of dogs.Where one or possibly more outstanding producers/performers are the so called "cornerstones" of that line over a period of generations. When talking about a "line" one should also expect to see great consistancy in both looks,actions and ability. As in Branko's line,Frank Reese's Gay beagles,Mel Faust's Satsuma beagles,John Otruba's Woodstock Granpy hounds,etc.
I.F.C. Greenwell's Reggie has been a quite popular stud over the past six years or so but in my opinion there is no "Reggie" line of hounds at this point.Maybe 10 years down the road we might refer that way but I wouldn't now.
First off let me say that I have absolutely no ax to grind about Greenbay kennels or dogs.I don't know Joe Kuklenski and have never even seen a Greenbay hound.
I will give Joe K. all the credit in the world for having a "breeders eye" in knowing what crosses to make to produce what he wants.He also must be blessed with more time and resources to devote to the dogs than most of the rest of us.His success is unquestioned.
But from a breeding stand point I would have to take exception that there is a "Greenbay line" at this point.
Look at the pedigrees on many of the "Greenbay" dogs and give credit where credit is due. Shooter= Ranger Dan which is Canadian Maritimes hounds and Joe Wingate from N.C.and bottom of Shooter is Birch Lake.
Butkus = bottom side is dominated by Branko and Pacesetter.
Paw King= bottom side has I.F.C. Maravic's Blue Ninja 4 times and his litter mate sister once and a shot of Striker.
Many of the other Greenbay hounds being campaigned with success are out crosses to Mike McPherson's Hunt Em Up kennel in N.Y.,Joe Gamache's NLPC Nemasket's Big Spring in Massachusetts,Snow Run kennels,stud by the name of Best of Whitestone and Perry Piacentino's Adirondak Mtn.Tiki from N.Y.
Greenbay has become popular with many beaglers as they end up in the winner's circle alot.A no brainer.Obviously Joe K. knows how to breed and train some winners.
But in my opinion I would not consider "Greenbay" to be a "line" of hounds at this point.Too many outcrosses to a lot of different dogs.That's why some have made the comments about getting different type of traits from their Greenbay dogs.
As always JMHO.

Good point Dana.