The American Beagler Forum

You can run them so called fast dogs in a few formats and win. I will take a solid medium fast dog with good line control, and good hunt and win at any format. Breeding for Speed is going to ruin the breed. I think before a dog can be titled they should have to be dropped from the tailgate jump and circle a rabbit to the gun by them self.

I would argue most of the "fast" dogs are not that fast. A dogs true accurate speed is how they run solo. Dogs that run medium speed solo and fast in a pack are competitive, maybe over competetive not fast. Some guys never solo so they think their whole pack is fast. Truth be told they have a whole kennel full of over competetive medium speed dogs...lol

I won't trail a dog I can't kill rabbits with. I gun hunt first. Trail second. I've seen some pitiful trail dogs that I would never own.

Bachman wrote:

ray s wrote:A fast dog with good brakes, when the rabbit turns (for his legs and mouth). That might equal medium speed when you're listening from the tailgate?????????

. Ya lost me sir

Come out and run in the mid-west little male class and I'll teach you !!!!!
Where in Sam Hill have you been ?????

Newt wrote:

Buckeye Blues wrote:

Andy C wrote:Sacrifice a little speed for more control

Though there are still tons of dogs in AKC spo and gundog brace that are truly fine trialing and hunting dogs, there are also an increasingly number of dogs that are lacking hunt in a big way.

It's not all about the track unless you are going to jump every rabbit for them.

Speed has nothing to do with hunt. I've seen dogs of all different speeds that have little to no hunt. I was at a LPH Trial once, at every long check, several of the dogs would quit and head to the garbage cans. One of those garbage can searchers placed second in the Trial.

If a trailer is not an avid hunter, why breed for a trait that is not needed to win a Trial. If they hunt and Trial then they probably breed for the traits they want in a hunting dog for his area as well as traits to compete in his chosen trial format.

Newt little buddy if you are going to quote me post my whole quote. My 1st paragraph (the one you left out....) was referring to your sacrificing speed for line control. The 2nd paragraph was giving an example of another trait all too often being ignored in the name of line control.

And lastly. There is a breed standard mentioning a trait the dog must have for desire to find and pursue to overtake. Yes, you've heard of the trait. The one nobody judges for in the AKC anymore. That's why a trailer should breed for that trait. To keep the standard and better the breed. If I was fit enough to be a judge a lot of dogs would be picked up before the gallery ever jumped a rabbit for them because they have no hunt. Period.

ray s wrote:

Bachman wrote:

ray s wrote:A fast dog with good brakes, when the rabbit turns (for his legs and mouth). That might equal medium speed when you're listening from the tailgate?????????

. Ya lost me sir

Come out and run in the mid-west little male class and I'll teach you !!!!!
Where in Sam Hill have you been ?????

I believe he's been in a lot winners pack and on the 1st place podium. But Bachman is usually more lost than little Bo peeps sheep lol.

The answer to the question is n akc field trial rules. Last dog does not get scored.

Buckeye Blues, I thought I was agreeing with your paragraph. Sorry if I failed to express it in a positive manner. Sometimes thoughts/meanings are lost in the written word.

My bad Newt.

The breed standard is pursue to overtake their game....... Not over run their game.. I agree that a dogs true speed is what he runs a rabbit by himself.. When a dog runs twice as fast in a pack it normally makes quite a few mistakes...

Big difference in a dog that is fast with a pack n fast solo. Any dog can look fast gambling n just picking up pieces of the track. I prefer a dog that is fast tracking driving when its solo. Run to catch but not blowing up every turn.

Requires a little independence and brains...I agree with hurry up

Andy C wrote:Requires a little independence and brains...I agree with hurry up

Thx Andy...I know you have seen the kinda dogs I was talking about.
Don't you think sometimes people are breeding females with less tools than the FC male hoping to improve what they have. So you get a mix of the 2 not a clone of the FC.

tdog wrote:The breed standard is pursue to overtake their game....... Not over run their game.. I agree that a dogs true speed is what he runs a rabbit by himself.. When a dog runs twice as fast in a pack it normally makes quite a few mistakes...

Part of what makes a good pack of well-matched hounds exciting is the way they work together, which naturally means they will push their game harder than if solo. They will swarm together and drive. If they didn't, they would probably just "slot up" and put you to sleep.