The American Beagler Forum

If you take a pup out of fast parents and raise it, run it, kennel it with only flat medium speed SPO dogs will it run medium speed or always be much faster?

If you take a pup out of flat medium speed parents and raise it, run it, kennel it with fast dogs will it always run slower?

I'm going to play that scenario out in my kennel this year but just curious what experience others have had isolating one style with another.

From my experience a kennel partners only influence speed a. Small amount

I have that right now .The slower hound sometimes plays catching up with my paycheck hound . One is three the other is 30 months old .

I would say what SPO club you are at.I always heard some clubs are faster than others. But if the dogs are true med speed NO they will not keep up but what I have notice its a big mess.They running back here and the fast dog running up there then the fast dog has a check and comes back to run with them and same thing over and over.That one reason I like two couple pack trials.Dogs are the same speed all the time.

It has been my experience that pups are born with what they are born with and the kennel partners or pack mates have little to no bearing on it AFTER they are to the point of running their own game. I understand that hounds are pack animals but I've always thought that one should do it's own thing in spite of how the others are doing it. If they paid a lot of attention to what their pack mates were doing after the game was going then I considered them to have TO BIG EARS! I've always felt that a good dog should do it at their own style and pace not what their pack mates are doing but in spite of it.

Accurate trailing must come first, then the faster it can be done, the better.
If the faster one is a good individual, then you will like it. If he is faulty, then it will all blame upon his speed.
A good one will slow down in bad conditions and run with medium speed hounds, but inevitably, when the scent turns good, he will pick up the pace and pull away from them.
Whether by conformation and nose speed, the ability to drive faster and hold the road comes from the genes.
Good luck with your hounds schooling.

In my opinion it's all about a dog's natural running speed. Just as wardog stated , what they are born with. It's been my experience that a dog that runs faster than it's "natural" running speed , is more likely to get rougher and start cutting the corners and getting on the outside simply to just "keep up". Now that doesn't mean that just because a dog does this cutting , skirting , ..ect. that it's slower , but a naturally slower dog running with faster dogs may start to do this to just stay with the dogs. Especially if it has a competitive nature. I have owned some that lacked what I consider competitive nature and just always ran at the back . I prefer a dog that can push a rabbit with good speed with or without company.But I've also found it to be a fine line for them getting "too rough" for my taste. Part of the fun (or aggravation ) I guess.
Again , just my opinion on this.

I agree with what the others are saying but I have saw a few dogs here and there that do change some. I believe this is influenced by the individual dogs "personality" if you will. Some dogs are more independent than others and don't really care about what the rest of the pack is doing, they're just gonna run their rabbit. Others are very "pack oriented" and will slow down (or speed up) in an effort to stay part of the pack. My experience is that if you have a naturally faster geared dog that wants to stay with the pack it's not usually a huge issue but even then they do stretch out a little more often than not and a lot from time to time. If you have a slower gear trying to run with faster dogs then you typically just get a dog "along for the ride" so to speak, meaning they're just gonna run wherever the pack goes with little to no regard given to the actual track. Dog food is to expensive for me to tolerate the latter in my opinion. The faster dog slowing down I don't mind as much but I'll probably end up moving that one to eventually. Beagles are pack animals and I just enjoy watching a pack that is well matched in speed and ability much more than a pack that varies. Again this is all assuming the only variable is speed. If faults are present then things can get aggravating very quickly especially when different speeds are mixed.

I have seen my dog run as fast as he needs to to keep up with the pack when he could. If I ran him with faster dogs (then my other one) he would run with them and sometimes lead a chase. My other dog would get blown out. Then when I put him down with my other slower dog he would get way ahead of him the first few times out and look like a real speed demon. After getting way ahead the first few times out he would settle in and run just ahead of my other one. You may never know how fast your other hound can be or he may keep coming back to run with the other slower hound when ever he gets in a check.

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out....

A couple years ago I did an experiment like your about to do. I run medium speed ( I believe them to run a flat medium) SPO hounds. Being impressed with natural hunt, jump ability, and conformation I bought a pup out of Large Pack breeding. I also saw that the parents did everything correct. They were rougher than I like but had tight check work, honest mouths etc. My thoughts were that maybe environmental influence made them run rough and would make my pup run cleaner.
I started the pup, ran it solo, and ran it with my 2 very clean very medium speed hounds. I sold the pup. My conclusion is that you can't fight DNA. They will be what they were born to be.
I don't believe in speed. I think that any beagle can physically run as fast as any other of equal size and conformation. The speed that they trail at has more to do with nose, brains, and the ability to process the information that the nose gives them. I also think that speed is often confused with competitive spirit. Most hounds that are thought of as fast are just over competitive.

bbg wrote:A couple years ago I did an experiment like your about to do. I run medium speed ( I believe them to run a flat medium) SPO hounds. Being impressed with natural hunt, jump ability, and conformation I bought a pup out of Large Pack breeding. I also saw that the parents did everything correct. They were rougher than I like but had tight check work, honest mouths etc. My thoughts were that maybe environmental influence made them run rough and would make my pup run cleaner.
I started the pup, ran it solo, and ran it with my 2 very clean very medium speed hounds. I sold the pup. My conclusion is that you can't fight DNA. They will be what they were born to be.
I don't believe in speed. I think that any beagle can physically run as fast as any other of equal size and conformation. The speed that they trail at has more to do with nose, brains, and the ability to process the information that the nose gives them. I also think that speed is often confused with competitive spirit. Most hounds that are thought of as fast are just over competitive.

Good topic for discussion!

The Progressive Pack guys/gals are faced with this a lot.
If you have a dog that is upper medium and likes to push, it wont do that dog any good to run it with "faster" dogs.
The dog will get rougher, learn to cut corners, and focus more on keeping up than keeping the track.

Run the same dog solo or with a couple flat medium hounds and the dog is forced to run cleaner.
Get too sloppy and the medium ones will catch up and get the check!
Eventually you'll decide if they accomplish more as a team or without the faster one.

You're a puppy guy... start the dog, try it with your pack, and let us know how it pans out.
The odds are probably against you, but the dog in question may turn out to be pretty decent?

Had a 100 guys tell me about the hound that runs fast in good conditions and slow in bad conditions I just haven't seen such a hound.....what I have seen is fast hounds that ease up a little but still way to rough to run in tough conditions...I've also seen the medium speed hounds gear up a bit in good conditions but not fast enough to get to the front of fast pack.

I do know it's easier to get a pack of strong medium (6) speed hounds to run smoothly than a pack of fast hounds. I've seen individual fast dogs go smooth but a pack of fast ones is a tall order.

In any event, this may be a lesson in futility but in the end I should have a better understanding of the effects of genetics vs training environment

My dogs are not "fast". As I wrote before, they are medium. This based on the fastest and slowest I have seen. Excluding traditional brace as I see them as useless.
The dogs I keep have gears. They adjust their speed, always going as fast as they can run it. At times they will walk it and at other times I laugh out loud expecting the train wreck to happen.
I have 1 young bitch that I believe can run as fast as any beagle. Her conformation is excellent, she flows over the ground effortlessly. She trails at medium most of the time but when ran with a "fast" dog in good scent conditions she doesn't get left back. She'll be there to cut them when they make a mistake.
Keep us updated with results from your experiment. I'm interested to see if they match mine.

If you take a pup out of fast parents and raise it, run it, kennel it with only flat medium speed SPO dogs will it run medium speed or always be much faster? if hes any good ,hes going to be faster ----

i always try to run pups with a slower dog -- and alternate with solo time -- i think they need to learn to run without a ton of pressure first --- you cant train a hound to run but you can give it the best chance possible --


Had a 100 guys tell me about the hound that runs fast in good conditions and slow in bad conditions I just haven't seen such a hound.....

ive never seen a good dog that wasnt like that -but i think your partly right ,, they dont come in bunches -- i think some of the reason you dont see more is too much competition too soon ---

-there is something wrong with a dog that doesnt run fast when it can -- or slow when it has too -

-- do you adjust speed when driving your truck on the ice--- or just wreck on first corner--