Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
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Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
In past post, where do pups get their traits from parents/ grandparents, a lot of guys said it 50-50. Half from sire and half from dam. Well here's my question.... What about pups who come from a strictly brood bitch/stud. Hound as never seen a rabbit before or ran a track,BUT the hound comes from a outstanding ped with proven ancestors as well as reproducers.
Would you still breed to them or would you want still the best perfomance level out if both that you breed?
I can see it both way personally. One if your carry a tight linebred ped and you are familiar with most that are in it.
That brood bitch or stud still carries the same gene pool.
On other had just because there are out of same gene pool does not make them automatically good.
So for breeding it would be a crap shoot on how pups would turn out?
Just wondering what y'all's thoughts were on them?
Would you still breed to them or would you want still the best perfomance level out if both that you breed?
I can see it both way personally. One if your carry a tight linebred ped and you are familiar with most that are in it.
That brood bitch or stud still carries the same gene pool.
On other had just because there are out of same gene pool does not make them automatically good.
So for breeding it would be a crap shoot on how pups would turn out?
Just wondering what y'all's thoughts were on them?
BONE BOX BEAGLES
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
No, proven hounds in field only!!! Pups way too much work to chance it...
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
BAOTB... If the blood is there and they have it, field proven or not. It's a gamble either way.
Isaiah 53:5
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
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Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
Harner’s Bush Whacker
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
According to the genetics experts, each dog, genetically, is two dogs. What you see and the recessive traits that you don't see. That is why making a mating is so hit and miss. Breed and cull.
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
I wil never really under stand what makes a dog a brood dog. Why would you want a pup from a dog that cannot do it its self? JMO
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
I myself would want to see both of the parents to be above average rabbit dogs before I make a cross and go through all the work of raising a litter and then training/working a pup for a year to see what I've got.And I'm sure that anybody that is considering buying a pup from me also wants to be assured that the parents can do a good job running rabbits before laying out a couple of Benjamins.
BUT----- the truth of the matter is that whether that male or female is a family pet that has never seen a rabbit in it's life or whether it is an International Field Champion that has beat all comers does not determine how it will reproduce!!!! A hound does NOT reproduce because he can run a rabbit and field trial wins are not hereditary .He/she reproduces because of his/her genetic make-up and his/her ability to pass it along to their pups.
BUT----- the truth of the matter is that whether that male or female is a family pet that has never seen a rabbit in it's life or whether it is an International Field Champion that has beat all comers does not determine how it will reproduce!!!! A hound does NOT reproduce because he can run a rabbit and field trial wins are not hereditary .He/she reproduces because of his/her genetic make-up and his/her ability to pass it along to their pups.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
One other fact, a successful mating depends on how the genes of the bitch and stud mesh. I've got a bitch, Bertie, that IMO, is awesome, her mother, grand mother, and great grand mother were all excellent hounds. I bred her to a young male that I though would produce a trait that I thought was missing in Bertie. I got a litter of seven pups and not one was anything special. The guy who owns the male bred him to a daughter of Bertie, Roz, and I got one of the pups. The pup seems to be exactly what I was hoping for when I bred Bertie.
The trait that I was hoping to pick up was staying closer at the point of loss. I sold Roz because she is looser at the check than her mother. The pup out of Roz, at a check, will put her nose to the ground and walk the line until it is hot enough to drive.
The trait that I was hoping to pick up was staying closer at the point of loss. I sold Roz because she is looser at the check than her mother. The pup out of Roz, at a check, will put her nose to the ground and walk the line until it is hot enough to drive.
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
I'm not taking chances the lap dog will give me my next best gundog, JMO.
Show me they can perform in the field at a high level and I will take pups from them, otherwise that guys who believe genetics run rabbits can buy them...
My hounds get beat down by one from a worthless brood male or female I will take my lumps and try another cross with two gundogs, gonna keep tryin to get decent dogs from the dogs I hunt, not lay on the couch or be the family pet.
Again too much effort for me to look at a pup out of any man's brood stock, let alone my own...
Show me they can perform in the field at a high level and I will take pups from them, otherwise that guys who believe genetics run rabbits can buy them...
My hounds get beat down by one from a worthless brood male or female I will take my lumps and try another cross with two gundogs, gonna keep tryin to get decent dogs from the dogs I hunt, not lay on the couch or be the family pet.
Again too much effort for me to look at a pup out of any man's brood stock, let alone my own...
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
What is more of a gamble, taking one or two useless dogs for my hunting or yours? And/or taking two solid hounds and mating them???? Gamble either way, I will stack the deck with breeding two good hounds....cross doesn't produce so move on to the next one(cross that is).....no gamble, just find what works to perpetuate the traits you desire.
They all won't make stars, heck if you could get 25% to make good hounds you are way better than most.....I will keep trying with good hounds IN THE FIELD....I have to go to someones...BAOTC, bad a$$ of the couch.....I will quit....LOL.
Good running to all.
They all won't make stars, heck if you could get 25% to make good hounds you are way better than most.....I will keep trying with good hounds IN THE FIELD....I have to go to someones...BAOTC, bad a$$ of the couch.....I will quit....LOL.
Good running to all.
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
BCBeagles wrote:What is more of a gamble, taking one or two useless dogs for my hunting or yours? And/or taking two solid hounds and mating them???? Gamble either way, I will stack the deck with breeding two good hounds....cross doesn't produce so move on to the next one(cross that is).....no gamble, just find what works to perpetuate the traits you desire.
They all won't make stars, heck if you could get 25% to make good hounds you are way better than most.....I will keep trying with good hounds IN THE FIELD....I have to go to someones...BAOTC, bad a$$ of the couch.....I will quit....LOL.
Good running to all.
Your right they don't all make stars, but I bet a brood bitch has just as much of an opportunity to produce real good dogs than a field proven trial hound. I believe in any cross could produce a badass dog, cause in my opinion they got or they don't.You keep doing what you love Jim with those BAOTW. Badass out the wallet.
Isaiah 53:5
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
Harner’s Bush Whacker
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
Harner’s Bush Whacker
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
Casey Harner wrote:BAOTB... If the blood is there and they have it, field proven or not. It's a gamble either way.
Casey Harner wrote:Your'll never hear someone blame the bitch for not producing a pup!! But then again, a stud owner should only breed selective bitches... Will they solve the problem with producing culls, no but they sure will avoid breeding to trash. Nobody wants to own up that they took a POS to a stud cause they paid the breeding fee, plus a negative brucellosis test. All the money rolled up into the stud, they sure ain't gonna blame their female. I sure do feel for stud owners cause they have to listen to everyone's whining....
You mentioned in a previous thread awhile back that people never wanna blame the bitch for a bad cross and no one wants to admit taking a sorry azz POS female to the stud so how is taking a dog that has never seen a rabbit doing anything better than taking a sorry azz POS dog in the field to the stud???
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
Correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinions one of the best females ever to reproduce talk about blue iris was a brood female and I would take a hound out o that brood female any day breed to a IFC hound or a family house dog. I am sure they are many more like her but I personally have seen and currently own wry nice hounds out of her.
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
johns03272008 wrote:Casey Harner wrote:BAOTB... If the blood is there and they have it, field proven or not. It's a gamble either way.Casey Harner wrote:Your'll never hear someone blame the bitch for not producing a pup!! But then again, a stud owner should only breed selective bitches... Will they solve the problem with producing culls, no but they sure will avoid breeding to trash. Nobody wants to own up that they took a POS to a stud cause they paid the breeding fee, plus a negative brucellosis test. All the money rolled up into the stud, they sure ain't gonna blame their female. I sure do feel for stud owners cause they have to listen to everyone's whining....
You mentioned in a previous thread awhile back that people never wanna blame the bitch for a bad cross and no one wants to admit taking a sorry azz POS female to the stud so how is taking a dog that has never seen a rabbit doing anything better than taking a sorry azz POS dog in the field to the stud???
Brood bitches are dogs who produce a similar trait that someone desires for right? They got it or they don't. Would I breed to a cull, probably not. But say you cull a dog out of a litter of six. So five are outstanding dogs, and one sucked. I bet that dog can still produce. That dog might suck but that blood is still there and he/she might produce just as good if not better than the other five litter-mates.
Would I take a bitch who can't produce any rabbit dogs and sucks in the field to a great stud dog, no. Would I take a brood bitch that never seen a rabbit, but produces rabbit dogs to a stud of my choosing, yes. It's a producing game John.
Isaiah 53:5
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
Harner’s Bush Whacker
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Philippians 3:13-14
RIP Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Coal Run Jody
Harner’s Bush Whacker
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
Casey,
I will tell you this, I work for all I have. The good Lord has blessed me beyond my imagination with the ability to first take care of my family, keep my wife home with my two healthy kids, and then my leftover from giving back to the Lord and then taking care of my family goes into my passion, Good hounds. I have never, nor will ever take ANY credit for the dogs in my kennels I just consider myself blessed to be able to have them. It is about good friends, good hounds, and good times in the field!
I wish much success to all be it, if they grow the outstanding young hound from there own hounds or have the ability to go out and purchase a decent dog. It is all about the love of a beagle and the pursuit of a rabbit.
Choose to do things how you like and your opinions are respected by me as I expect you to respect mine. To each his own on how they achieve there goals... BAOTW's can bring enjoyment to....LOL. Breed your broods, enjoy your pups, hope they are beast's and true BAOTB's everyday you run or at least you can tolerate them on there bad days...LOL.
I will still take my chances with good hounds in the field whether bought or out of the dogs I bought..LOL. I am not afraid to ride someones else's shirt tail and let them have the true success as the big time breeder, handler, or whatever motivates them..... I just want a good rabbit race by a dog that looks for the game of choice and runs it as well as it can.
All welcome here to run and enjoy good times after a passion we all have, rabbit dogs!!
Take care!
I will tell you this, I work for all I have. The good Lord has blessed me beyond my imagination with the ability to first take care of my family, keep my wife home with my two healthy kids, and then my leftover from giving back to the Lord and then taking care of my family goes into my passion, Good hounds. I have never, nor will ever take ANY credit for the dogs in my kennels I just consider myself blessed to be able to have them. It is about good friends, good hounds, and good times in the field!
I wish much success to all be it, if they grow the outstanding young hound from there own hounds or have the ability to go out and purchase a decent dog. It is all about the love of a beagle and the pursuit of a rabbit.
Choose to do things how you like and your opinions are respected by me as I expect you to respect mine. To each his own on how they achieve there goals... BAOTW's can bring enjoyment to....LOL. Breed your broods, enjoy your pups, hope they are beast's and true BAOTB's everyday you run or at least you can tolerate them on there bad days...LOL.
I will still take my chances with good hounds in the field whether bought or out of the dogs I bought..LOL. I am not afraid to ride someones else's shirt tail and let them have the true success as the big time breeder, handler, or whatever motivates them..... I just want a good rabbit race by a dog that looks for the game of choice and runs it as well as it can.
All welcome here to run and enjoy good times after a passion we all have, rabbit dogs!!
Take care!
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Re: Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???
havenskennels wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinions one of the best females ever to reproduce talk about blue iris was a brood female and I would take a hound out o that brood female any day breed to a IFC hound or a family house dog. I am sure they are many more like her but I personally have seen and currently own wry nice hounds out of her.
Talk about Blue Iris was not just a brood bitch she was ran and ran hard. Don will tell you all about Iris the way he explained her to me was she wanted that rabbit and wanted to kick any dogs butt that was in the way, she just turned out to produce better than herself which is what we want, not just breed some dog that never got started to see what it was like!