The American Beagler Forum

i have a young female for sale and the other nite a guy called and wanted to know if he could win any trials with her. shes only 10 months old and "green started" at best. i said i dont know, i just gunhunt mostly and wouldnt think about a trial for her for quite awhile, if ever. i feel a dog should be a "gundog" first and then maybe a trial dog. if they cant circle a rabbit to the gun consistantly, then they are pretty much useless. isnt that why field trials were started: to enter and find who has the best gundog? maybe im crazy , whats everyone else think?

AMEN Brian!!!!!!! I hear ya over here!!!! You got the right ideas!!!!

Prove a dog under the gun. If it dont cut it there, dont even consider trialing it! Are we promoting a GUNDOG or a HOBBY HOUND????????

I wonder sometimes.

Good Point Brian, I am hoping others will chime in and share their comments. As a newbie to the trial circuit, I'd also like to know what registry and format best promotes a good gundog's ability.

It is my opinion that just because you have a "good" gun dog that doesnt mean it will be a good field trial dog and the same could be said the other way around. It all depends on what registry and format of that registry you are running in. Some registries have different formats in which someone can chose to run thier dogs in. In my opinion, some represent a "good" gun dog and some dont. Everyone should run what registry, format and dogs they like and leave it at that. If you dont like trials and would rather just gun hunt or just run thier dogs thats fine too. Some folks like to run slower type dogs, some like faster, some like a wilder type dog, some like a dog with good line control, some like to run with a big pack of dogs and some dont. Like the old saying goes......To each thier own!

I think that almost any hunting dog that really can run a rabbit can also trial in the correct format and almost any trial dog would make a good hunting dog given enough time to learn the hunter's requirements. The key word here is almost.

One of the misleading things that ARHA has done is to call its field trials wild rabbit hunts. They are not hunts, but rather field trials. In a field rial a rabbit dog is required to run a rabbit by a certain set of rules. Since the dog can't read those rules it is up to the owner to find the set of rules that fit his dogs. Some dogs don't fit any of those rules. Therefore they will not make good trial dogs even though they are excellent hunting dogs.

A hunter requires certain things from his dogs too. Again, the dog does not know the hunter's rules so it up to the hunter to find dogs that perform in the manner that he likes. Sometimes the hunter's requirements and trial rules will vary to the point that none of his dogs will fit any trialing format. This does not make his dogs bad hunting dogs.

Generally speaking, the average hunter requires less from his dogs than trialers do. (fewer rules) This makes a trial dog harder to raise than a hunting dog, but not a better dog. As we all know, some beagles can't do either thing very well.

Stoney but isnt this the question shouldnt a good gun dog be a good field trial dog. Since field trails are supposed to promote the gundog in any registry or any format. I mean dont get me wrong but it looks to me if it keeps going like it is going there will not be anymore gundogs just registered field trial dogs . I called a man about a pup once and he asked if i was looking for a trial dog or a gundog. I told him I thought a good gundog should be a good field trial dog. Mabye I am wrong but if I decide to start field trialing the dog had better beable to cut it in the field to the gun first.
I dont mean to sound like a smart A but why is there a difference ?
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION A GOOD FIELD TRIAL DOG SHOULD BE A GREAT GUNDOG!!!!!!!!

Cecil

your absolutely right. A good trial dog should be a great gun dog. unfortunately the color of green has put blinders on some and they have forgotten why they started running dogs in the first place. That's why there are so called field trial dogs and then there are Gun Dogs. Personally, I will take a gun dog any day.

I enjoy field trials. It's a chance to get away w/ my daughters (they usually accompany me to trials, schooling permitted) and enjoy fellowship w/ others of like mind, hear some good hound music and see what is running good and how my hounds fair. I dont take it seriously. If and when I ever start taking trailing serious, I will quit. That being said up front.......

I seriously feel that having FC / RCH's that are NOT proven gundogs are a major downfall of the trialing scene. To say a dog is a "trial dog" and another is a "gundog" but not both is disturbing to me. If breeders/trialers say this is so, then they need to start a hobby hound division within the formats. Don't call `em gundogs and dont call the federations/associations anything that resembles the wording of GUNDOGS! If a trial hound cant cut it in the field as a gundog, it is a hobby hound! What else could it be? And within the gundog formats, any hound that could not be successfully gunned over should never gain a title of FC / RCH! Fads come and go and in the process can be devestating to the beagle as a useful hunting companion.

Just my $0.02

I think one of the major problems with the trials is the way they are judged. To let someone judge a pack of dogs and that person cant recognize each hounds voice is asking him to do the impossible. Just imagine yourself going hunting with a total stranger and after the first rabbit is killed he ask you to rank his pack of dogs from one through six.. You may havent even seen the dogs cross a path but a time or two. So how do you judge them. I think the whole feild trial system is inherently flawed. Theres just not enough time in a day to let the dogs "hunt" in a feild trial to determine the best. Its a great way to meet people with the same interest but I think you should keep things in perspective...

In my humble opinion the only difference I have seen is a good gundog has a harder time finishing sometimes, verses a good trial dog.A good gundog is usually a little tighter and doesn't claim quick enough at times to get rewarded points in a trial or my be to tight to ever be trialed. On the other hand a dog that finishes quickly or is considered a good trial dog will claim quicker. In return you sometimes have a dog that will bark to much to gun over. I have seen more trialed dogs that could be gunned over then I have seen that could not be. I think that goes back to what others have already said. It depends on the format and registration you choose to run in.