Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

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Ron Conroe
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by Ron Conroe » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:47 am

S.r.patch wrote, we have to be happy with what we feed...............BINGO.....but this is fun to read, it's like a good science fiction book.

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S.R.Patch
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by S.R.Patch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:44 am

Glad to entertain you Ron and thanks for your insight and knowledgeable contribution,,, :biggrin:

warddog
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by warddog » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:40 am

The most dominating performance(s) I have witnessed was from an ole white, blind in one eye hound my dad bought from a dog jockey when I was a kid. Our entire family killed many a limit with ole Whitey as did our friends that hunted with us as well. He would dominate a hunt regardless of who brought what with them to put meat on the table. Saw him from the top of a stripper knob on one hunt running a rabbit pretty tight on his butt and the rabbit swam a strip pit but ole White Meat swam it right after him and we eventually put that one in the game pouch as well. He didn't just do this one time with one dog BUT every time with every dog and we hunted in the roughest grown up stripper knobs all the time. When a dog does that consistently that is what I call dominating and to this day I have NEVER seen one do it since. We didn't judge them by running behind them but rather standing at the point of the jump and waiting to see and hear what dog was able to bring the rabbit back to the table in some of the toughest hunting terrain there was. Oh and by the way if someone crippled a rabbit and it got away, it was never a problem telling what dog was dominating as ole White meat would retrieve and bring it back to you. We never judged domination by a few hours of hunting with a pen and paper but rather an entire day in the stripper knobs with shot guns and game pouches that needed filled. AAHH, I long for those good ole days where rabbit dogs were for putting meat on the table and not for trophies. I tried my hand at trophy hunting with coon hounds and found after much time, effort and money, the competition aspect was more for the owners than the dogs as I personally witnessed time after time the drama of cheating in any and every way one could think of. I witnessed more than I care to say win casts and place that most wouldn't feed. I didn't have to read the score card as I knew which dog was best in a cast although that dogs handler may not have been as good as the dog or another handler was better (crooked) than his dog as the dog only does what it knows. ALL "my opinion" from what I have experienced through my years of real hunting with hounds and I am sure there are others with different experiences from which they form an opinion.

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by Darryl » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:38 am

Patch , When you write Brando, I assume you mean Branko Krpan , I have been to his farm many times and yes he does have enclosures , two 40 acres pens by his home for puppies and has 2 , 640 acre pens .. aswell as thousands of acres of land we ran in the wild snaring rabbit in front of his hounds. a good dog is a good dog , be it in a trial or hunting. I find that people who cant win bash those that can, and find some kind of angle to make themselves happy with what they feed.
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by WELLS WOODS » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:40 pm

I've yet to see a Patch hound in a field trial that wasn't extremely loose on the line & usually trying to circle the pack & pick up the line way ahead of the pack. If this is your idea of proper houndwork, then you have hit the mark. Just don't see the need to blame field trials for the faulty style of your hounds when under pressure. Believe me these "field trial" hounds in the Mid-West are used for hunting first & the occasional field trial second.
Last edited by WELLS WOODS on Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by S.R.Patch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:53 pm

Yes Sir, I did mis spell that as I got in a hurry to finish the post when a seen my pups was loose. And No Sir, I never intended to bash anyone cause if you read my post I said , I never posted to belittle field trials,... what I was hearing in others post I didn't understand and was trying to get what they were saying because my experiences had been different with hunting and hare races while hunting.
I'll tell ya what I find to be true most times,... when it comes to the point where discussion turns to bashing or the accusation of bashing instead of the exchange of reason and logic,...it means someone is running low on ammo to defend their stance.
I'm just a rabbit hunter and have nothing to gain or loose by discussing hounds. I've been here a number of yrs and enjoyed the many members past and present. I've learned alot and enjoyed sharing what I've experienced over the years.
I think Branko and Fredia must be a fine folks and enjoy their hounds and enjoy the beaglers that have the same passion. I know the work and constraints keeping hounds puts on ones life, that why you see folks getting in and out of hounds every day. A lifetime of hound service can be a taxing price to pay.
I can respect those who put in the time and money to attend the trials and publicly show their hounds performance. But if it resulted in reaching the goal of producing the total hound for hunting I'd be more involved.
When folks like Ron Conroe send ya a message looking for a 13 inch female, there must be some merit to what a just plain ole hunting hound has to offer. I like to keep those type messages cause it show there's something they've had, seen or heard that peaked their interest and when ya don't have the window dressing of FC on the hounds or loaded in the pedigree, it means to me the rabbit hunter still has something to offer in the production of a good hound.
I wish you lot of luck with your hounds and enjoyment in your hunting... :bigsmile:

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by S.R.Patch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:04 pm

WELLS WOODS wrote:I've yet to see a Patch hound in a field trial that wasn't extremely loose on the line & usually trying to circle the pack & pick up the line way ahead of the pack. If this is your idea of proper houndwork, then you have hit the mark. Just don't see the need to blame field trials for the faulty style of your hounds when under pressure.
Greg, I don't see what's got ya so fussy about patch hounds. I can't help what folks raise, buy or enter in field trials and I am disappointed a fellow with your experience would label a whole family of hounds by what you've seen since you didn't give a number or the breeders. I haven't attacked any person or any line of hounds or any field trials, there a vast number and varied types, we've only been discussing hounds running rabbits and hare.

I think your trying to start a fire with wet matches...and it's diminishing my high opinion of you... :(

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by Casey Harner » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:34 pm

S.R.Patch wrote:Yes Sir, I did mis spell that as I got in a hurry to finish the post when a seen my pups was loose. And No Sir, I never intended to bash anyone cause if you read my post I said , I never posted to belittle field trials,... what I was hearing in others post I didn't understand and was trying to get what they were saying because my experiences had been different with hunting and hare races while hunting.
I'll tell ya what I find to be true most times,... when it comes to the point where discussion turns to bashing or the accusation of bashing instead of the exchange of reason and logic,...it means someone is running low on ammo to defend their stance.
I'm just a rabbit hunter and have nothing to gain or loose by discussing hounds. I've been here a number of yrs and enjoyed the many members past and present. I've learned alot and enjoyed sharing what I've experienced over the years.
I think Branko and Fredia must be a fine folks and enjoy their hounds and enjoy the beaglers that have the same passion. I know the work and constraints keeping hounds puts on ones life, that why you see folks getting in and out of hounds every day. A lifetime of hound service can be a taxing price to pay.
I can respect those who put in the time and money to attend the trials and publicly show their hounds performance. But if it resulted in reaching the goal of producing the total hound for hunting I'd be more involved.
When folks like Ron Conroe send ya a message looking for a 13 inch female, there must be some merit to what a just plain ole hunting hound has to offer. I like to keep those type messages cause it show there's something they've had, seen or heard that peaked their interest and when ya don't have the window dressing of FC on the hounds or loaded in the pedigree, it means to me the rabbit hunter still has something to offer in the production of a good hound.
I wish you lot of luck with your hounds and enjoyment in your hunting... :bigsmile:

Agreed

I got into beagles because I love hunting. I killed my first rabbit over a beagle named Bocephus. I got hooked, two weeks later I got my first beagle. Killed so many over that hard hunting hound. I like field trials due to seeing old friends, hopefully to meet new ones and of course see great hounds go. I do like the competition and comrade with the other beaglers. With all that said it doesn't top what hunting season is for me. Anytime or anywhere I am at and in rabbit hunting it takes me back when I killed my first rabbit. I prefer killing rabbits in hunting season rather than field trial during hunting season. Say field trials never existed, how many people would still be beaglers??
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by WELLS WOODS » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Well Patch, you seem to have the entire field trial world narrowed down to be a negative aspect of beagling & detrimental to the hunting breed. You say you don't want to belittle field trials, but that's all you do. Anyone that truly cared about our sport & the beagle breed would be able to recognize & appreciate that field trials have been put in place with the intent to promote a better hunting dog & are doing just that in my opinion. It seems like you want to promote your bloodline over the more successful bloodlines that win field trials by calling our dogs "field trial" hounds & reproducers of " field trial" hounds insinuating that they aren't top quality hunting hounds also. I guess it is okay for you to try to diminish the quality of certain hounds & your bloodline be off limits. I learned as a judge to call them like I see them when it comes to hounds & not worry about people's feelings in order to get it right. I'm sorry if I offended you by describing the patch hounds I've seen & I truly hope they do not represent what you keep & hunt. I hope your hounds are top notch whether you decide to prove it in the field trial arena or not, but downgrading our trials & other beagle bloodlines does not make yours look better & will just bring out bad qualities in people that you would otherwise think highly of.
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by Swampman » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:04 pm

WELLS WOODS wrote:I've yet to see a Patch hound in a field trial that wasn't extremely loose on the line & usually trying to circle the pack & pick up the line way ahead of the pack. If this is your idea of proper houndwork, then you have hit the mark. Just don't see the need to blame field trials for the faulty style of your hounds when under pressure. Believe me these "field trial" hounds in the Mid-West are used for hunting first & the occasional field trial second.
Greg,

A cutting, swinging, cheating hound won't cut it up here in winter.
You are more than welcome to come up here and run with me on cottontails at home and/or on hare at my cabin.

I was out of the trialing world for about 12-15 years as I was raising my kids. The last couple of years I have run some Midwest when I have time as well as LPH. It is tough for me to condition a hound for LPH, but it is still fun and there are great people I have become friends with in doing so.
I have yet to have a hound picked up in Midwest (knock on wood), even for what you have labeled them for doing above. My hounds have made some winners packs and have also placed in Midwest.
I am a hunter/pleasure runner first, but do enjoy trials as well.

I did my share of judging back in the day too, but as someone posted on this thread or another, until you are actually chasing those hounds and seeing first hand what they are actually doing, they all sound like winners from the gallery seat.

I will say, I have seen first hand as well as video that shows exactly what you have stated, just realize, not all are like that.

I remember back in the early/mid 90's when I was trialing a lot, a Branko hound was well known for running deer (up here anyway), seen this first hand many times. With this said however, I'm not going to sit here and say all Branko hounds were deer runners.

Life is short, keep it civil men and enjoy your hounds.

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by WELLS WOODS » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:58 pm

I'm sorry I put all Patch hounds in one category of the rough, wild few that I've judged in trials. I'm sure there are better quality out there; it's just how this guy seems to dismiss our claims of the great hounds we've seen & how our field trials are a mediocre way at best at promoting the best hounds. I guess it finally got to me. Of course a hound is going to look better in familiar surroundings with familiar packmates & we can find out more about a hound the longer we run it day after day; this is how we train our hounds. Field trials are just the test to see how our best compare to everyone else's best around the country & ultimately give beaglers more information on different bloodlines & their characteristics. I look forward to seeing some Patch breeding change my view of their running style. It's up to the individual breeder to choose the direction of their hound's running style. Patch probably started from the same ancestors as most gundogs & can be molded anyway a good breeder sees fit. We judge hounds & promote line runners that can put their game through the woods & back to the gun as quickly as possible without faulty actions that disrupt progress. A hound that can do this should please any hunter also. Good Hunting to all.
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by sbeagler » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:45 pm

i have to agree with Greg with patch hounds and cottontails although they do quite well on hare on sod. Maybe there are better ones out there I haven't seen yet. As far as field trials most hounds I have seen out the mwgda were good gundog quality.It takes a really good hound to win let alone place there.I have found them to be true to the name gundog association and there are others true also, yet some parts of the country are claiming to be but are a far cry from it like comparing a kentucky derby horse and a donkey in movement , tracking wise, and confirmation.There are a number of hounds that are mixed patch if you go back aways like 6 or 7 generations and some the old stuff had Maurice Sampson Watatic bred in known for nose and pressuring both hare and cottontail. They say David Cluckeys patch blends are good hounds. A friend of mine in NY has crossed some of Cluckeys stuff to awful bawlin lines and has placed some hounds with it show lot of ability. Pacesetter even had some Patch in him.
Last edited by sbeagler on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beaglestotrack
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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by beaglestotrack » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:03 pm

if one has never climbed to the top of a mountain they can explain the view..... :D

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by Mark T » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:40 pm

I agree Greg. Not about the patch hounds, I have never really seen any to form an opinion, but the fact that some of the best "hunting" hounds I have ever seen had titles infront of their name. I got started with my neighbor Stub Barker. He was known all around town for having the best rabbit dogs around. He took me hunting and the rest is history. He got me into trialing and took me to the first one I ever went to. When I heard the banter at the trials about "trial dogs" and "hunting dogs" I didn't get it. We were hunting with the same dogs we trialed??? As I found out, some guys just simply don't hunt. For whatever reason, health, time, etc...They like running dogs and the competition of the trials. Nothing wrong with that, but the labels were and still are unfair. Just because the don't, doesn't mean they can't! I have found in my travels that those who "bash" or generally talk down about the "trial" hounds usually can't compete with them. If they like what they are feeding then I have no problem with them, but don't come on here and tell me and others who have seen it that it is unbelievable. That rubs me the wrong way, as well as others judging by the comments. As I have said before, it is a whole different ballgame.

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Re: Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

Post by sbeagler » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:28 pm

most dominating performances i seen :Awfulbawlin Hoser winning Sandy Creek not even close, Beavercreeks Manifest Destiny win Edinburg simply dominating, Tughills Dark Raider win in 90 degree heat Black River Valley, IFC AMCA Max pave the paths on a CIRCUS bunny at Sandy Creek hare was running paths doubling back to win a big class over fifty and earlier won a class over 60 on snow in New Hampshire. Though the distractions were many with the gallery and lots of hound tracks his(Max out of Striker) nose and brains shined way above his pack mates. He sired Kickazz thats had his share of blues and placing in the big events.

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