When to feed dogs?

[gwyoung]

Casey,three times for a man who is so disgusted he can't stand not being in on it, I haven't heard the last of you trying to get in on this disgusting post, it's called hypocrisy !

[Casey Harner]

If I know I'm gonna run dogs in the morning, I will feed at 4 or 5pm the evening before. I personally seen a dog get sick and couldn't run. It was actually after a post was made here about twisted guts and feeding before running. Since I'm not a veterinarian I couldn't really give the proper condition of it. I am guessing it was twisted gut.

[gwyoung]

Casey, you saw a dog get sick once and you don't know what caused it, o.k. I will go along with that, you also GUESSED it may be twisted gut, fine with me also. you go on to say that you won't feed your hounds immediately prior to running again fine with me, If I feed mine right before running would that be all right with you, It seems to give some of the " experts" heartburn. Would it also be alright with you If I would cull and have done so, hounds that Puke and crap in the box at any time! And once again I don't care if any keep Pukers and crappers but it isn't right for them to tell folks who are no more informed about it than they are that all or at least most dogs are pukers and crappers , this is not correct, and I am here to say that as beaglers we do not have to put up with pukers and crappers . now if any wants to and it seems that some are happy to own them that is fine with me. But for them not to want the truth to be known , that not all are pukers and crappers is doing a dis-service to those who don't enjoy cleaning crap as much as they do!

[Casey Harner]

Casey, you saw a dog get sick once and you don't know what caused it, o.k. I will go along with that, you also guessed it may be twisted gut, fine with me also. you go on to say that you won't feed your hounds immediately prior to running again fine with me, If I feed mine right before running would that be all right with you, It seems to give some of the " experts" heartburn. Would it also be alright with you If I would cull and have done so, hounds that Puke and crap in the box at any time! And once again I don't care if any keep Pukers and crappers but it isn't right for them to tell folks who are no more informed about it than they are that all dogs are pukers and crappers , this is not correct, and I am here to say that as beaglers we do not have to put up with pukers and crappers . now if any wants to and it seems that some are happy to own them that is fine with me. But for them not to want the truth to be known , that not all are pukers and crappers is doing a dis-service to those who don't enjoy cleaning crap as much as they do!

By the way, the dog didn't throw up. Before he was fed he was lively as heck. Looked like he was ready to run. After he ran for a few hours he looked like death. He looked sick but didn't upchuck. His stomach was sensitive when we loaded the hounds up.

[gwyoung]

No problem I didn't say he puked, but by your own admission you don't know what was wrong with him, I believe you. Did the hound that you think had twisted gut cure himself?

[Casey Harner]

For a fact, no I had no clue what it was. Only reason I thought it was twisted guts was sensitive stomach and looking like death. Plus the previous week before this happened the twisted guts was mentioned in a post. I remember I mentioned to the owner that it might be twisted guts since he fed him before we ran.

I'm sure the logic can be true, since the rule is to swim after your food as settled.

[beaglefever]

I run my dogs in the morning and in the evening and I feed every evening after I run

[warddog]

Casey,
If the dog had a twisted gut and it wasn't taken to the VET very quickly it would have died. Looking like death is a pretty good description of what I have seen one looks like with a truly twisted gut AND in a matter of a few hours what they look like will be what they are. A twisted gut and bloat are not the same things although getting bloated can be a symptom after a gut is twisted. The one my cousin was trying that got it and died showed no signs of anything wrong other than he looked like death and quit hunting after doing so for several hours. Although slobbering all over would not drink and could not stand up. that is when the Vet trip was made but at that point it was too late. I'm guessing this was maybe 4 to 6 hours after we first noticed him looking like death in the field. It was quick!

[gwyoung]

Casey, Did you ever see the dog or the owner again, Did the day the hound get sick just happen to be the first and only time you ever saw him or the hound? I was just wondering if he took the hound to the Vet. or it simply got over what was ailing it? This might help determine what it was or wasn't. It appears that you never saw the man again since you never knew of a diagnosis. or could be the dog just fixed itself and it probably wasn't anything serious, Don't worry about twisted gut in your beagle , can it happen yes , your hound can also be struck by lightning, or hit by an airplane. I am sure at sometime it will happen on this planet, but is it something to be worried about, no. If it happens to one of my hounds tomorrow do you think I am going to be concerned about it happening to another the day after tomorrow, of course not, it is extremely rare! Hope that clears it up for the real experts! But I suspect they will start fabricating instances as they fabricate other things! I am going to leave the real experts with this, Remember it is not the dog food that makes your dog crap or puke in his box, it is the ride, he gets car sick, some more so than others, a hell of a lot of them have it , does it help to let their food settle some in a dog that is prone to car sickness yes it does, but the puking is still caused by the hound getting car sick, not the food, he's a puker, one doesn't have to put up with that , but if it suits any than that is fine with me. Twisted gut in a beagle, do I really have to tell the experts how rare that is again and how they have never seen it!

[Casey Harner]

Oh yah I run with the owner regularly and yes I've ran with the hound since.

I seen the dog a week after it happened and he was fine. I agree with you I don't like poopers or pukers in the box either, but I don't feed them before we go running so it don't happened very often. If I am at a field trial and I have dogs who were to run later in the day in I will give them a potty break.

We have a Lewellin Setter, she is a real nice dog but will always throw up in the dog box. It don't matter if she hasn't ate in a few hours or a whole day. She will throw up any thing including saliva. I hate taking her to the vet which is only 15 minutes away.

[R and D kennels]

Casey,
If the dog had a twisted gut and it wasn't taken to the VET very quickly it would have died. Looking like death is a pretty good description of what I have seen one looks like with a truly twisted gut AND in a matter of a few hours what they look like will be what they are. A twisted gut and bloat are not the same things although getting bloated can be a symptom after a gut is twisted. The one my cousin was trying that got it and died showed no signs of anything wrong other than he looked like death and quit hunting after doing so for several hours. Although slobbering all over would not drink and could not stand up. that is when the Vet trip was made but at that point it was too late. I'm guessing this was maybe 4 to 6 hours after we first noticed him looking like death in the field. It was quick!

A hose can save them . Like I mentioned before it is very common in the dog sports that I was born into.

[LR Patch]

GW , I've yet to even say a word about feeding, running my dogs on this thread. which was the question, I only replied to what u said , and asked to ok lets move on as this and many other post truly have no " one size fits all answer " each should have tried and figured out what works for them or what they can or will put up with in their hounds . My dogs do not pee or puke in their house or my box , nor will I have one that will . I do try to feed at the same general time daily and prefer to feed late afternoon. Also don't like to run right after feeding , would I, yes , will they hell yes . Just know I don't want to run just after eatin so don't dogs ask my to .
U know really I just don't see a reason to expect folks to do what I do or belittle them into think their worng if they disagree .
Granted u r more articulate than I , but grantee ur not 1 bit more hound smart than I am & I don't claim to b smarter than u . Maybe I'm wrong just seems U want to see seen/heard( hey look at me guy ) and me I just do my thing fly under the radar , never care bout what think bout me or my ways . Oh & here I'm 56 so no guess needed , had hounds all but bout 5 of the 56 . Fear no man, try my best to put God&Family 1st , but as U read some of my replies try is key. I also do have a ole male that got a twisted gut , run'n one nite had not been fed ,vet said it was rare .
Regard Randy

[Hare Chaser]

I don't know anything about using a hose other than I suppose one would attempt to ram it down the dogs throat with the hope it would push through into the stomach and create a vent. It would be my absolute last resort. I stood at the operating table and watched the whole surgical procedure from start to finish on my Bluetick hound in 1985. This is how my vet describes what occurs in gastric torsion (canine bloat).

A dogs stomach is basically like a bag hung from a pipe with an inlet and outlet. When the stomach begins to bloat up with gas it rotates. Think of the pipe as the rotation axis. When it gets to the point it goes beyond 180° in rotation it has flipped and the inlet and outlet are clamped off. Nothing gets in or out. The stomach continues to expand and causes extreme pain for the dog. I was told hat there is about a six hour window in which the dog can be saved once the flip has occurred. My guess is that by the time most would see the presenting symptoms of gastric torsion, the stomach has already flipped. At this point you would be trying to ram the hose through a closed off opening and be more likely to punch through the wall of the esophagus or the stomach. The absolute best thing you can do if you suspect this condition is get the dog to a vet pronto! I was fortunate and my dog survived. It was quite a process to watch.

[gwyoung]

L.R. patch, You know what you did say a word about? Look at your first reply to me, I don't think anyone can look at it as all you wanted to do was say o.k. let's just move on, and you didn't want to start any crap, and neither can you, perhaps you really don't understand what you wrote, why don't you take another look at it this time seeing it for what it really is and then I will accept your apology, ( and then you have the nerve to talk about belittling somebody) There was no call for that on your part and I am surprised that you are 56 years old and still act like that especially seeing as how I was not addressing you in any way, if I was addressing you and things flared well I can understand that but otherwise , No. And as far as my belittling someone I don't, what I do is defend my position as all others are welcome to do, The fact that I can actually defend my position with facts and substance apparently causes some to feel uncomfortable, and since in the face of facts some may feel embarrassed they try to accuse me of different things so that their " facts" may be all that is heard, some will be calling for my head because when facts of the matter are presented it contradicts what they are saying and they start getting all red faced and slobbering, It's called a debate let the readers decide what sounds right to them , let's hear all sides and if you want to look as far as things go I am attacked far more than the other way around , your first post on here demonstrates that point quite well. Being the adult that I am I will accept your apology, how about being an adult looking at your first post and doing the right thing!

[LR Patch]

That was no apology. Nor will I give U one just saying . I'll try my hardest not to post on anything U do , but I really get tired of your B/S sometime to the point of opening my mouth . U go boy wonder knower of all master of only your mind .
To that good day.