Conformation in Mid-West hounds

[WELLS WOODS]

Beagle Huntsman, there isn't anyone that value's conformation more than me. And the same is true of most beaglers in the Mid-West. You won't find hounds that move better in the field than in the Mid-West. Maybe the show people could learn something by studying the way our Mid-west hounds are made. You can't appreciate these hounds without actually seeing them in action. People can get on their computer & criticize until their fingers are stiff, but you won't convince me & others that the Mid-West hasn't done more for the beagle hunting breed than any other organization; this includes rabbit running ability & conformation. These hounds are so well built they are able to perform at a high level even in their old age. You can see a picture of my Prime Time dog at age 9 on Gereral Services under Ison's Colonel Cobalt page 3. This is my idea of how a hound should look; Athletic, free moving, miniture fox hound look even at an old age. Respectfully, Greg Wells

[Pine Lakes]

Lol....if you don't know must be nobody does.

Amazing that you would applaud the efforts of the Midwest breeders for some brownie points and don't have a clue what your talking about. They look good to you so must be getting better.

If you read what I posted you will see I stated the Midwest breeders are doing a good job breeding hounds with conformation that matches the desired style. Didn't say they were wrong just different.

Gaze through the large pack results and you will see dogs that resemble gray hounds even closer as they desire more and more speed.

The coyote hunters have bred the fox hound into a dog that resembles a whippet. Them dogs darn near fly. Again, not wrong just very different.

I don't credit us in the Mid-West with changing, or maybe improving is a better word, the conformation standard for beagles. On the other hand I don't discredit them either. There was a period of time the hunting beagle in these parts had become a crooked legged, dumpy version of the true hound. The good folks up north did not fall for this trajedy because they needed a hound that could pursue its game with endurance and authority. The show beagle became bred for looks only and its field value diminished considerably if not almost completely. One thing that the participants of Mid-West trials have done is bring in hounds that are built for an all day effort and continue breeding for that type of hound. I think you give to much credit to those that breed beagles for show only. They too have fallen short of what the true beagle was meant to be. Their fault is much like our own, and that is too much focus on certain desired characteristics instead of the entire scope of the standard. I have gazed through several large pack pictures and have yet to see any that look like greyhounds. Not even close. That's not saying they all meet the standard to a "T" because they don't, but neither do the show champions. In fact, when looking at some show champions, I wonder if they could last more than an hour in the field if they could pursue game. Personally, I think the Mid-West overall, has done a dang good job of promoting a hound that is useful in the field and easy on the eyes.

General Appearance: A miniature Foxhound, solid and big for his inches, with the wear-and-tear look of the hound that can last in the chase and follow his quarry to the death. That is the AKC standard in a nutshell.

[WELLS WOODS]

Exactly, Pine Lakes. I should also give more credit to the Large Pack on Hare beaglers that kept breeding for a strong, athletic hunting hound through the years. These bloodlines made the Mid-West what it is today.

[mybeagles]

Notice the extremely long legs small head and ears. I've watched these bitches go and they call roll. Resemble gray hounds to me, but they do exactly what they were bred for. Some of these gyps will run all day at very fast pace.

[Pine Lakes]

As imperfect as they might be, none of them look like this:

[WELLS WOODS]

Small heads? look fine to me & all their ears are set low & look to be long enough to reach to the end of their muzzle & why would long legs be a fault as long as they are 15"?

Just because hounds are built well & have fast foot speed doesn't mean they can't slow down if conditions are tough. There is no way a hound without gears can run a cottontail properly.

[Pine Lakes]

I run in Mid-West trials when I have something ready and they look like this, which is pretty much the norm here in the Mid-West :

[Pine Lakes]

I think they resemble miniature foxhounds, which is what the standard states. Not the blocky dogs of shows.

[WELLS WOODS]

There you go! They must have missed that line about the AKC standard. UBGF; please.

[big mike 50]

I believe what mybeagles is trying to say is that when you say conformation you are saying a very specific thing. With that being said a lot of show beagles are being bred too short and squared off and they are stiff and unathletic which the breed standard specifies athleticism. I am going to say that pine lakes has done a great job putting together a beautiful pack of dogs and if they can compete in the Midwest and look like that I would proudly feed any one of the dogs pictured. With that being said in regards to a beagles conformation which is specific there are flaws in each one of those dogs that would keep them from winning a champions title in the show ring. I doubt he will lose a minute of sleep based on that fact because they weren't bred to go to Westminster they were bred to win the Midwest runoff. The only reason I used him as an example is because he was gracious enough to post pics of his dog which I appreciate. I just put words in another mans mouth and attacked the looks of anothers fine looking pack so let It fly but I believe each of you are right in what you are saying. To Gregs point I think it would be hard to find a crooked legged buck toothed champion in the Midwest these days due to careful breeding and peoples continuous efforts to eliminate such flaws from the breeding stock. And that is all I have to say about that.

[Pine Lakes]

Mybeagles, please don't take offense to anything I'm saying as I haven't been offended by your statements. I see it as good debate/discussion and while I don't fully agree with your points, I do respect them, and in no way am I trying to disqualify your opinions. We are all entitled to them.

Big Mike, you're absolutely correct. I will not lose one ounce of sleep due to the conformation of my hounds. However, I have lost sleep due to not consistantly participating and placing. This is a problem that I have refocused on and hope to ratify in the near future. The competition is certainly tuff and I wouldn't want it any other way.

[pcable]

COnfirmation is important, but it don't run rabbits! Just as there are different running styles, there are different styles of confirmation in the dogs! As long as they meet the breed standard, they are fine by me! I have everything from a 12" stocky built female to a 15" slim built hare hound in my kennel and enjoy all of them!
Pine Lakes those are some fine looking hounds in those pics! That first pic is sure a good lookin hound that runs as good as she looks.

[Casey Harner]

Conformation is important, but it comes second to hunt/desire without that, you just got yourself a good looking pet jmo

[mybeagles]

Not casting any stones, I just think it needed to be clarified that the Midwest and large pack hounds are getting farther away from the AKC breed standard not getting better. Some may feel this is a good thing others may not and that's open for debate. My dogs look closer to a Midwest dog that anything but I'm definately paying more attention to the AKC standard and will try to make suttle improvements such is possible with my small operation.

Here are a few pics of my young dogs for criticism .....

[Casey Harner]

No need to critique or criticize about those beagles. Looks good to me. I don't like crooked legs or over/under bites. I will never have one in my kennel nor will I breed to one who does, that's my standards. I like what I got as far as looks go.