Conformation in Mid-West hounds

[WELLS WOODS]

I've noticed that the conformation & running gear of hounds as a whole has really improved over the last 20 years. I think people are taking more pride in their dogs' looks & are realizing the advantage of having a quick, free moving hound. I used to see several crooked legged , sway back hounds at the trials a few years ago, but today these hounds are built straight, up on their toes with an athletic build. Nice to see. I've even noticed a more houndy head for the most part; I don't see as many short, high ear set type dogs as I used to. Not only are the looks improving, but the field ability & talent is much higher across the board. I know some may disagree, but I think a few (not all) of the FC's in the 90's may have a tough time winning today.

[WELLS WOODS]

Look how athletic & houndy those big males are in the post from Neil Kimbrel on the Top Ten Hounds topic. Really nice! I think at least 3 of them are from different bloodlines also.

[WELLS WOODS]

Show us some of your well built hounds....LPRCH Branko's Spotty Beast in the General Services section is a super good looking hound too I think. FC Cereal City Wango Tango is sharp too. Lot of nice looking hounds on there; Fly Man, Blue Bud, Colonel , Lucky, Dino, Junie, Phantom etc...etc..

[Newt]

John New's hounds were always nice looking, back in the day. Northway kennels, IMO, also has made a positive contribution to the conformation.

[WELLS WOODS]

Yeah, John New was one of the first in the Mid-West to really emphasize good conformation. FC New City Cruiser was really put together. John's brother, Bruce keeps nice hounds too. Bruce is one of the best judges I've judged with.
Northway hounds are tough & rugged built hounds. The great FC Northway Spur was built really well, but his ears looked a little short in the pictures I've seen; not trying to bash. Dexter Reffett & Paul Kormony's hounds had plenty of ear though ; Driver & Ninja had a real houndy look. Mark Brown (OH) & Mark Brown (Ky) both finished hounds by FC Northway Driver in the Mid-West; FC Chimney Hills Driver & FC Timber Creek Misty Kisses. I'm pretty sure they were mates & their dam was FC Branko's Spring Kisses ( IFC Trakarab Pacesetter x FC Branko's Proper Lady Slipper). I judged Misty Kisses; she was awesome! Placed her second behind IFC Stoney Hill Tamarack. Talk about bitches that were built well; they could move.

[Beagle Huntsman]

When the Midwest Association was started, all of the clubs held shows, either at the same time as a trial, or separately as in a Summer Show. Those shows could be very competitive. I think the UBGF still holds some shows, but in my limited observation they are usually held while the field judging is going on, so nobody is really paying attention to the show. For whatever reason, the Midwest Clubs eventually stopped requiring shows.

John New and several others who started the Midwest Association used a considerable amount of show blood in his breeding program, and understood the value of it. FC. Indian Hills Majer (bred by Mr. New) had quite a bit of show blood, and he did improve the type in the Midwest hounds for awhile, especially in the body and running gear.

About 1990, the Canadian influence began to take hold in the MidWest. These hounds had no show blood, and typical conformation was generally fair at best, but sometimes poor. Running became very sloppy, with fast bursts to a check repeated over and over. John New and many of the early Midwest breeders began to withdrawl from trialing about this time.

Now, today's Midwest hounds are bred down from those in the 1990s, for the most part, or from similar bloodlines. You will find very little Majer, Cruiser, Valar, Showfield, Little Ireland, Gay, or other early Midwest lines with show blood.

So, my question would be...if the hounds today are improved in conformation as you say, and I am not disputing that since I have no trial experience since before 2000, how are they getting better with no shows for competition, no show blood, and very few early breeders still around? Are breeders actually making decisions to improve conformation without any real peer pressure to do so?

[ray s]

I found this photo and caption on the Woodpont Beagles website (http://woodpontbeagles.com/). Conformation was obviously important to those folks.

Photo above shows New City Cruiser first (Vickie New), Burton's Dan second, and Indian Hills Rowdy third (R.B. Sester) at a Jackson County (Ohio) Beagle Club AKC Small Pack Option Licensed Field Trial 15-inch male class from the mid 1980s.  All three hounds have played a major part in shaping the Woodpont Beagles of today.  Note the fine conformation of these three top hunting hounds.  The tall blonde-haired judge in red shirt in rear is Larry Carter, who helped start the Great Miami Beagle Club and The Midwest Gundog Association.  Larry bred many great dual-purpose beagles from his Valar Kennels in the 1970s and 1980s, including Woodpont Joker.

[WELLS WOODS]

Beagle Huntsman, Yes, In my opinion breeders today are paying much more attention to conformation. Not only just to have a better looking hound, but to improve their hounds' agility in the field. I believe we are finally seeing the result of breeders improving looks & conformation over time using only the best proven performers in the field that have a proven gundog bloodline with several generations of ancestors that were proven to be the best quality in the field also.

[Newt]

I've always preferred the athletic build of the Mid West and LPH hounds. I like hunting dogs that can jump on and off the tailgate and get through the rough woods and hill terrain.

[madcatter]

Show us some of your well built hounds....LPRCH Branko's Spotty Beast in the General Services section is a super good looking hound too I think. FC Cereal City Wango Tango is sharp too. Lot of nice looking hounds on there; Fly Man, Blue Bud, Colonel , Lucky, Dino, Junie, Phantom etc...etc..

here is my spot pup,he will be two in october,i entered him in two derbies this year,got a second in a class of 7 and a 4th out of 19




he loves chocolate cake

[WELLS WOODS]

R.B. Sester has done well through the years and has basically stayed with the same core bloodline since the 80's based on FC Indian Hills Majer. You'll see Majer in all of is breedings somewhere, but you won't see any added show blood in his Field Champions. IFC Mark V's Ace In The Hole crossed well with his Indian Hills dogs. FC Indian Hills Princess was a great producer. FC Indian Hills Nickie , FC Indian Hills Maggie, FC Indian Hills Liza Jane, FC Indian Hills Trapper, FC Phelps Lil RB & FC Indian Hills Nighttrain were a few off the top of my head that were as good as anything running today & yesterday. They had plenty of foot with control & worked the check clean & close with enough talent to win against tough competition. He also crossed with some hare hounds like IFC Trakarab Pacesetter, IFC Larmay Toastmaster & FTC The Elm's Jigs Maggies Mate with great results. Everyone still respects the Indian Hills name in the Mid-West.
IFC Taylor's Sock It To Me influenced several breeders with their long, straight, athletic body. Branko dogs were known for good conformation also. They have made an eternal mark on the Mid-West trials. Nearly every FC these days has Branko blood somewhere in their pedigree. The Branko bloodline has a solid foundation of proven ancestors & the best hounds from this line became great reproducers also with plenty of focus on how a dog looks and is built. When they first came to the Mid-West though, some beaglers hated their " on the edge " style, but they attracted a lot of new beaglers also with their flashy speed. Their was a span of a couple years at that time that beaglers in the Mid -West were trying to breed for too much speed & it caused a lot of the more conservative beaglers to lose interest in the trials. Fortunatley, this trend didn't last because the judging became good enough to shape our winners into a hound with more line control & close, precise checkwork. IFC Branko's Heli-Prop was the most popular in most people's view because he was a very nice looking hound & had enough line control to run a cottontail extremely well with front end speed.
For whatever reason the Mid-West started to grow around this time with large entries & more clubs forming in different states. Several different bloodlines were showing up in the trials, mostly from the AKC & CKC Large Pack circuit. These bloodlines were based on years & years of breeders using only their best running hounds for breeding. This raised the talent level of our trials.
It's taken a few years for Mid-West beaglers to mold this hare hound blood into a dog with the special qualities needed to excel on a twisting cottontail. They are fleet of foot & built to move up quickly on the rabbit if scenting conditions are good, but have the brains & patience to slow down & work the check close and aggressive without being over competitive in the pack. It's satisfying to see how well these winning and placing hounds can run a rabbit these days & how consistent the conformation has become across the board from several different bloodlines.

[Newt]

There is a Bitch, Shavers little Ginger, that IMO had something to do with Indian Hills success. Back when I was a young man, David Brandenberg and I drove up to Kentucky to run beagles with John New and the gang. We were running at night. The only dogs that I recognized were Major and JN's dogs. After while I became aware of a mouth that seemed to open first at almost every check. I asked and was told that is Shavers Little Ginger. It made an impression and I have never forgotten.

[HS Run]

Go to my website and check out Willow Run Abby II. On hounds of the past.. Dig out your old rabbit hunters and BB Mags and you 'll see some dogs from the Ace x Abby cross.. Ace crossed very good with the new city blood good. I made the cross twice.
Abby was a 13" female that would blow your mind!!! Run her day in and out and wouldn't skip a beat!

[WELLS WOODS]

We owe a lot to the guys that started the Mid-West Association or were some of the first to get clubs started & hold events; Larry Carter, John New, R.B. Sester , Fred Faust, Jerry Eversole, Bill Music, Harry Wilson, Don Hoog, Marvin Parrett, Morton Sexton, Freddie Ball, Jim Latimer, Joe Clark, Tom Summers, Cletus Shaw, Dave Cluckey, Rudy Lapoint & many others. Jerry Eversole told me once that he couldn't find a decent AKC registered hunting beagle back in the 60's & 70's. He said he would go to the brace trials & buy some of the hounds they culled for being too fast & he said they were still way too slow to hunt with. I think the first three clubs were Jessamine County (KY), Great Miami (OH) & Scoitio Valley (OH) that made up the Mid-West in it's beginning in 1980. They just wanted a place to trial the beagles they hunted with. I doubt if in their wildest dreams they ever thought it would last this long (34 th year) & grow to what it is today; 25 or so clubs now in KY, OH, IN, MI, IL, WV, AR, MS, & LA.
The first trial I went to was in 1991; my Dad coon hunted with some of the guys that ran the South Ky Beagle Club & they let me be field marshall for a class. Bruce New & Linton Cress were judging & they let me run after the dogs & give some input on what I saw. I realized then what all the fuss was about & was hooked from then on.

[WELLS WOODS]

Any of you guys remember FC Birch Lick Pac Man by Indian Hills Fred. Also, FC FD Ball Sue by FC New City C Wall & FC Cry Baby Sawyer by Indian Hills Fred ? These were some of the first dominant hounds I saw run before I ever started judging. I remember the first Branko hound in our area; FC Branko's Proper Tom Cat by Heli-Prop owned by Kendall Norris.