I Hope Somebody Will Have A Opinion On This ??????

[mcardery2k]

Here is the deal. I saw the rabbit when I pulled in the lot crossing the grass. By the time I changed clothes got everything ready 20 minutes had passed before I got the dogs turned loose. You can see they picked the track up but struggled for about 3 min. before jumping the rabbit back up. Guys always say the dogs should not bark until the rabbit is up.So pretend I never saw the rabbit. I turned the dogs loose and they are out there having a hard time and if they are being judged people are going to assume they are probably cold trailing. After a few minutes the rabbit pops out and the dogs are off doing a nice job. In my eyes I am proud of my dogs for setting down and working up the rabbit. If I was out early in the morning people would say they are just a bunch of dumb big nose dogs. i guess what I am wanting to know is should the rabbit really be up before the dogs bark? The rabbit had moved about 20 min. before the dogs hit the line but if I had not seen the rabbit we would have not known that. I am sure this is the case many times in early mornings The rabbit has moved within the last hour and the big nose dogs are going to get enough of the scent and open on the rabbit. This is what a lot of the guys call a dumb dog. Any Thoughts? I hope somebody will have some imput.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6gEv8i ... uscomments

[Newt]

" i guess what I am wanting to know is should the rabbit really be up before the dogs bark? The rabbit had moved about 20 min. before the dogs hit the line but if I had not seen the rabbit we would have not known that."

It all depends on what you like and expect from your dogs. I'm like you, I want success in running the rabbit. Losses are the most serious fault a dog can have, IMO. Some folks would tolerate losing, as long as the dog doesn't bark early.

[rabbitatfarm]

I have a big nose dog and it gets him in trouble often. He has minused out at least three times this year, but he also led in HOY for a while and is second now with one trial to go. Often, the rabbit was there he just runs out of time (3 minutes.) The down side, at least in trialing, is opening early gets the rest of the dogs on the track and he may lose a jump. Also a lot of judges don't like a mouthy dog. But you won't score a strike if your dog doesn't open. And there are days a strike is all you need to win. Hunting, it just depends on how long you want to give him to get a rabbit up. Personally. I'll take a minus or two over a zero any day. A dog with a "0" isn't working hard enough, IMO. No one knows how long that scent stays on the grass or why a dog can't smell a rabbit that went by a minute ago. I like my dogs and if you like yours don't worry about it. Mine is only 2-1/2 and improving as he gets older.

[Blue Chaser]

I don't know if opening on a 20 minute trail means they have a bigger nose than the others it's just how they respond to their nose. I have a dog that will work an older trail like you mentioned without making a peep. I know he smells it because he goes into overdrive trying to figure it out but the whole time he is silent. Once he figures it out I'll watch him trail it for a short distance but still remain quiet. Once he gets moving and knows he's on it he'll open and take off. In this case I don't think the nose is any different, just that a different dog will bark as soon as they have a hint of a rabbit. To each his own but personally I like a dog that only barks after they have it figured out. My brother's dog is the opposite and seems he's barking all the time due to the number of rabbits but he doesn't always produce. After awhile of this you start to trust his barks less and less.

[dogwhisperer]

to each his own but i prefer if the track is not hot enough to make a good forward progress then i want them to keep there mouth shut until they jump it or they can make good forward progress. me personally i cant stand when a dog is barking around every 2 steps when others are keeping there mouth closed looking for the jump or a hott track to run. jmo

[rabbitatfarm]

dogwhisperer;

I don't think the scenario is that his dogs are barking every couple of steps. In my dog's case he is trying to make forward progress and sometimes the other dogs hark in. Some rabbits just can't be gotten up or the scent peters out. Take the case of a dog opening under a brush pile. The rabbit is clearly there, but he's not up until the jump. A big-nose dog in a big, solid pile is going to pull a minus occasionally.

[dogwhisperer]

i guess this is where our opinions fray from one another. what i am saying is i dont believe in heroes. i mean if a dog in my pack is barking and the others are looking and smelling for scent i will stop it quickly. if you dont mind this then eventually you could have a whole pack of them. to me the brush pile thing is a little different i mean who knows maybe the dog can see the rabbit or even almost get to it but by the same token i wouldnt tolerate a dog going to every hole in the ground barking because there may be a rabbit in it. this is just my opinion and i dont claim to have the best dogs there are but when they bark i wanna know that i will be shouldering my gun very very shortly

[rabbitearl]

Mark I ve always wanted a dog to let me know if there s a rabbit around and a dog that when it barks rabbit is up. I ve always wanted a pack of 8 dogs to be good in its on way and some cold nose dogs are alright with me.I never had but one that would stay on it and jump the rabbit even if take an hr.Good hound work to me.But most what I have would smell it and the other dogs would go in and jump the rabbit.Good pack work to me.

[Blue Chaser]

I guess the bottom line for me is this. If they are acting up and smell a rabbit but are trying to figure out which direction it went then I want them to keep their traps shut. Once they figure it out and start the pursuit, open up. Of course, this is in regards to older scents. If they hit a brush pile and hit a scent that's just seconds old then they should open and pursue immediately.

[mybeagles]

I'm not so concerned about barking early as I am about getting hung up on a cold track. I've had cold nosed dogs that work an old track with lots of energy but don't bark till its jumped and I've had dogs with big nose that open on older track but keep moving. Both style dogs jump lots of rabbits. The KEY is big nose and don't get hung up in one place to long. A different form of accomplishment over style.

[mcardery2k]

How many guys have dogs who would have worked the first 3 1/2 min. of that video without barking? Honest answer here only..... How many people have dogs who would not have picked the 20 min. old track up?

[rabbitatfarm]

My dog would have opened. I don't know about his siblings. My female is a bit tighter and so is their brother, but I think they would have smelled the rabbit.

I wouldn't be so lenient with a dog that puttered with an old track. As long as he's moving it or trying to I'm okay.

[Buckeye Bob]

to each his own but i prefer if the track is not hot enough to make a good forward progress then i want them to keep there mouth shut until they jump it or they can make good forward progress. me personally i cant stand when a dog is barking around every 2 steps when others are keeping there mouth closed looking for the jump or a hott track to run. jmo

I am with dogwhisperer on this. Just a preference for me to have a tighter mouth dog and I am totally convinced tight mouth has nothing to do with nose, my young male will only open on a hot track that he is moving and that is the only time he opens. I saw his daddy wind a rabbit, jump it and only open once he was running track so he probably gets it from his sire. In the case of a pack that is working out a track that is 20 minutes old, I'd much prefer them to do it without opening. But, I've killed many a rabbit over the 2 pure jump dogs that I've owned in my life and they both would cold trail on occasion. I would feed either of them in a heart beat.

[Blue Chaser]

How many guys have dogs who would have worked the first 3 1/2 min. of that video without barking? Honest answer here only..... How many people have dogs who would not have picked the 20 min. old track up?

Just watched the video as I didn't notice it originally and I don't see anything wrong with that. As long as the dogs are obviously trailing the rabbit while opening I think that's what they should do. In my eyes, the dog has figured it out by that point and knows where the rabbit went accurately. If they stay on it long enough it has to eventually lead to the animal that laid it down. I for one am not going to argue with a dog barking that is clearly on a trail. What I DO hate is when they HAVEN'T figured it out yet and open. Basically, they meander in circles barking with no real idea which way it went. A dog that does this too often starts getting ignored rather quickly. I got lucky and my reggie male will look excited and find that older scent but doesn't make a sound until he gets a few steps on the trail and figures it out. Of course, once he figures it out it's pretty obvious as he's off to the races but it isn't until he kicks it up a gear that he opens. His litter mate on the other hand will bark at any old scent he finds. We then have to wait and wonder if his mouth was honest or we need to pull him off and keep moving. This is my brother's dog but it gets old after awhile, I can tell you that.

[Alabama John]

I think it depends on where and how you hunt.

If I hunted where rabbits were scarce, trailing up a track 20 minutes old would be a plus and I would like q dog that would and could do that.

If I hunted where there were plenty of rabbits, a dog that would work on a 20 minute track would be a negative and I would prefer a dog that would ignore that track and continue looking for a rabbit to jump and run hot. Where there are plenty of rabbits, working up a cold track is a waste of time and effort.

Your dogs should match your expectations for where and how you hunt and it should not matter what anyone else thinks.