Lesson Learned...

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likeemfast
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by likeemfast »

likeemfast wrote:
S.R.Patch wrote:Keith,
I don't know if it is working the midnight shift or it's all this hate but my head hurts. I know you all like my little riddles and rhymes when I post so I'll leave you with the only thing emotion offers at the moment.
"I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels."
Patch
That is not one of YOUR little rhymes or riddles, its Psalms 22:14, ........ and are you actually comparing your now little upside down world to the suffering our Lord and Savior endured on the cross? How pathetic. Are you actually for real?

Since ya like fables and quotes so much, here's one i take no credit for but i think it fits after your last post, ..... why don't ya make your next post a picture, ...... you modeling a nipple costume, so most of us can say at least your not a complete boob.
warddog wrote:S.R.Patch wrote:
Keith,
I don't know if it is working the midnight shift or it's all this hate but my head hurts. I know you all like my little riddles and rhymes when I post so I'll leave you with the only thing emotion offers at the moment.
"I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels."

It is pretty clear to me the intent of the posters written words. I guess folk, like politicians interpret the written words to fit THEIR agenda from what was put paper. What I interpret from these words, as written, is that the person was being sarcastic with his words that knew we all liked his "POSTS" that contained "little riddles and rhymes." ( I am aware of the complaints about them on the boards) He left the reader with the likeness of how he was feeling emotionally at this time and hence the quote: "I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels." I would venture to say that many of us have felt emotions that melted our hearts and the QUOTE was merely a means of expressing how deep HIS emotion ran. I also notice that the words are in QUOTATION marks which has a significant meaning as in they are QUOTED and not that he makes the claim they are his.

TO Dumb and Dumber,
I will let you two fight over which one of you claims to be the smarter of the two. Whether Patch is claiming the quote was his or just using it to describe his emotions because his little doggie world has been turned upside down is irrelevant. To use the verse that describes the extreme exhaustion, strain, and sheer torture on the entire body of Jesus Christ as he was hanging on the cross is absolutely 100pct pathetic. For you to come on here and try and justify it is just as pathetic. I am nowhere near perfect and certainly not the best Christian but there are things you just should not do. To say Patch was using the "likeness of how he was feeling emotionally at this time and hence the quote" (your words) shows your ignorance also. Didnt one of Patch's great and powerful Pack masters ever tell him how to use his own words? Don't the great and powerful Pack masters ever speak in their own words? Is it all some kind of tribunal tongue? I doubt this will go any further than this last post of mine as im sure neither one of you want to try and justify how ignorant both of you are.

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adirondackjoe
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by adirondackjoe »

i've been reading these posts for a week and i STILL have no idea what's going on. still its better than watching re-runs of i love lucy.

littlewoody
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by littlewoody »

likeemfast wrote:
likeemfast wrote:
S.R.Patch wrote:Keith,
I don't know if it is working the midnight shift or it's all this hate but my head hurts. I know you all like my little riddles and rhymes when I post so I'll leave you with the only thing emotion offers at the moment.
"I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels."
Patch
That is not one of YOUR little rhymes or riddles, its Psalms 22:14, ........ and are you actually comparing your now little upside down world to the suffering our Lord and Savior endured on the cross? How pathetic. Are you actually for real?

Since ya like fables and quotes so much, here's one i take no credit for but i think it fits after your last post, ..... why don't ya make your next post a picture, ...... you modeling a nipple costume, so most of us can say at least your not a complete boob.
warddog wrote:S.R.Patch wrote:
Keith,
I don't know if it is working the midnight shift or it's all this hate but my head hurts. I know you all like my little riddles and rhymes when I post so I'll leave you with the only thing emotion offers at the moment.
"I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels."

It is pretty clear to me the intent of the posters written words. I guess folk, like politicians interpret the written words to fit THEIR agenda from what was put paper. What I interpret from these words, as written, is that the person was being sarcastic with his words that knew we all liked his "POSTS" that contained "little riddles and rhymes." ( I am aware of the complaints about them on the boards) He left the reader with the likeness of how he was feeling emotionally at this time and hence the quote: "I am poured out like water, my bones all out of joint. My heart is melted like wax in the midst of my bowels." I would venture to say that many of us have felt emotions that melted our hearts and the QUOTE was merely a means of expressing how deep HIS emotion ran. I also notice that the words are in QUOTATION marks which has a significant meaning as in they are QUOTED and not that he makes the claim they are his.

TO Dumb and Dumber,
I will let you two fight over which one of you claims to be the smarter of the two. Whether Patch is claiming the quote was his or just using it to describe his emotions because his little doggie world has been turned upside down is irrelevant. To use the verse that describes the extreme exhaustion, strain, and sheer torture on the entire body of Jesus Christ as he was hanging on the cross is absolutely 100pct pathetic. For you to come on here and try and justify it is just as pathetic. I am nowhere near perfect and certainly not the best Christian but there are things you just should not do. To say Patch was using the "likeness of how he was feeling emotionally at this time and hence the quote" (your words) shows your ignorance also. Didnt one of Patch's great and powerful Pack masters ever tell him how to use his own words? Don't the great and powerful Pack masters ever speak in their own words? Is it all some kind of tribunal tongue? I doubt this will go any further than this last post of mine as im sure neither one of you want to try and justify how ignorant both of you are.

Bruce Lord
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warddog
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by warddog »

Profess to be a Christian? I can't say that I notice any Christian beliefs that are anything like what I interpret that to be. Words uttered from the lips about people who do not agree with you, name calling and speaking to issues just to get personal is not what I would define as Christian. DUMB and dumber is just but one example and a clear indication of what I would think is NOT a Christian upbringing. People can tell a lot about people from what rolls from their mouth and in this case fingers. I don't need to even know people personally to understand that when they grasp for anything to try to belittle people that they take umbrage to, not even know them, including religion is exactly the opposite of my perception of a Christian. I have been the brunt of name calling and ire of words through many posts and I, as others I'm sure, have noticed some are pretty quick to fire out their opinion(s) and then resort to name calling or other spews of their perception of belittlement that they believe proves to someone they are of knowledge. The only knowledge they appear to have to me is how to do, as most without any do, when they can't debate an issue with substance they resort to belittlement and name calling. They then try to turn that around but I suspect it is pretty obvious to anyone who has been involved with them in a debate. I also suspect that those numbers will be few and far in between as most probably don't give those post much time as they really say not much of any benefit to anyone other than them trying to make themselves appear of knowledge, unlike most others who post on here to merely try to help others from their experiences over the years. Those types even take the time to enter threads that I have posted on to do exactly what I have stated above. They evidently think they are proving to people that I am dumb and they are smart or they have vast knowledge of subjects that folks on here are interested in then I think they are proving just the opposite by their writings. Age has a way of soothing the soul and teaching even when we don't realize that experience is but merely lessons in life. The pathetic part, in my view, is that one must have the actual ability to feel, in THEIR very heart and soul the emotions associated with sacrifice as that comes from their very core and not merely from their lips. I know that this will be responded to me personally as that's what happens when folks preach from the lips and not the heart so I will turn the other cheek over to whoever feels the need to respond. And although I may be dumb, maybe dumber or both but I as well as many others, I suspect still hold that love for helping humanity in our hearst. This leads me to end in a quote that I seldom do but this one seems fitting at the time, “For love is blind and lovers cannot see the pretty follies themselves commit” probably rings true!

likeemfast
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by likeemfast »

Warddog, yes, you always come back after a post of mine and name call and belittle in your own way and i forgive you. As far as responding to you i think you answered to the point where no response is needed.
warddog wrote: And although I may be dumb, maybe dumber or both!
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S.R.Patch
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by S.R.Patch »

Ken, let it go. It's not you they're after. I can defend myself, but I promised Bev I wouldn't fight. They want nothing more than to get me banned, there words reek with provocation.
I had a dream the other day when I came home from work, maybe it was the pizza I had for supper. I was out sleeping under the stars and I caught movement in the grass, When I lifted my head I saw it was a snake, "hello friend, the snake said, mind if I join you in your nest? this cold night air can be hard on old bones, so the snake crawled on in. Some time after I'd gone to sleep, I felt a sharp pain in my rump and jerked back the cover. The snake had grown 7 heads and was biting me so I pulled out my knife and cut off it's heads and then each of those heads grew out 7 more heads and so on, until i was buried in what had become a den of snakes.
Many have ask what I did to receive such a letter and the truth is, I spoke badly of the hounds pictured in the Better Beagling article they did with Mike. chris and I were talking about the epilepsy and he went on talking about other faults he perceived others breeding and using the patch name. I told him the hounds in the pictures looked to me too have those faults and I felt disappointed with what was shown as representing the patch hounds. We were having an honest open discussion until that point. Then I was read my pedigree and told what others thought about me, I came openly with the allegations to apologize. There's so much behind the curtain talking, that wounds never heal. I am always told not to be kennel blind, to look for faults and be honest with myself and others. I've found the cost of this is great but it's suppose to make things better. Maybe it will if everyone played by the same rules, but it seems no one likes the hard road.
I've never said i know everything, nor have i boasted my hounds. I never "sucked up" to Mike, I went and visited him one time and we talked on the phone a few times. He wasn't much of a talker on the phone but we had some good talks and he had his opinions. I remember one thing he said about my english hounds, "don't waste to much time on them", that was his opinion and I took it with salt, I know each man is entitled.
This is what I had wrote to chris and I meant it as constructive input for myself and all who breed this family of hounds and I truly believe it, time has passed and it has prove to be true in my opinion.
I've got a Better Beagling magazine that has a article about Mike and his patch hounds, it's got 4 or 5 pictures of the hounds. Those hounds display every fault you just mentioned but i don't know about their running style. When I heard of Mike outcrossing, I wondered if it was to straighten things up a bit. I wished he and the other patch breeders could have worked together and brought the hounds back to their former glory but I guess the assumptions and resentments were to great, much like it still is today.
Staying pure and selective is all I do, I was lucky and met a great group of guys who were good houndsmen and held their hounds to the standard. Many of them are gone now and my breedings get pretty tight because I only stick with what I know. The biggest thing I've found in keeping and breeding hounds is "who you trust". Some people will tell you what you want to hear while peddling their bad apples. As you say, they want in the click but have nothing to offer, they only bad mouth the ones trying to make a difference, the only ones who suffer are the hounds for what could have been accomplished if everyone were on the same page working together. I think if a fellow is doing his work and putting out good hounds, the hounds will speak for him louder than the naysayers and they will become known for what they are. Those who are negative and produce nothing to improve or comparative with what the beagle community is running will fade away and be forgotten. You can sit on a nest of eggs til it rots or you can tend to it, hatch it out and let the world see it's beauty.
That's my farm story for the day, have a good one... :D

I am thankful for those who bred these hounds before me and put them out there so I could experience what this family has to offer, they and Willet have shown me what is possible with a breeding plan and a vision. That pretty much sums it up for me.

warddog
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by warddog »

I understand it's not me "they" are after as I have nothing NOR do I single out any breed or strain of hounds to love or hate as they are ALL just dogs. What I have responded to is the same ole, same ole from some that reinterpret the words to suit their agenda. This dialog with me is nothing more than such an incident that goes back just like yours does and has absolutely nothing to do with you and or Patch hounds. I post on other threads as you well know and never see much of this kind of stuff and when I do it is the very same thing. I find it very sad, what folks resort to over conversations about dogs and really leaves me wondering about humanity in general. My replies to this thread have NOT a single thing to do with defending S. R. Patch or his breed or his belief in that breed but everything to do with his right to his opinion. I learned long ago that the world will still turn tomorrow whether I have the best hunting dog, am the best great white hunter or feed the best feed to them or if I personally have anything at all. It just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things to pass judgment on a belief or an opinion as that will be done for all of us in time. I am done with this thread, have turned my other cheek and got it slapped as well but I shall not continue the childish banter for I am sure it is obvious to wise elders, just as it is to my ole dumb self.

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Alabama John
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by Alabama John »

Same of us learned to pick out a dog by how we picked out our wives. Always look at all the lineage you can and see if it pleases you to better your chances for success.

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S.R.Patch
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by S.R.Patch »

I feel better today, I spent last night pouring over 15 yrs of e-mails (an advantage of being somewhat a pack rat, you never throw to much away). Much I had forgotten and much fell into place as I read seeing many had the advantage over me, I didn't know them but they had done some study on me. Putting time in a book form that could be read in a running setting in one night connected and showed alot of things. I had to find out what caused such bitterness. I now harbor no ill feelings or guilt, my mind is at ease.
Ironically, awhile ago I picked out and old hounds and hunting magazine (1957 model) to read and there was the title by Willet Randall, "We Went to Europe For A Hare Hunt"(or didn't we)". His stories always take you on the journey with him and I love tagging along.
You can't change people and time waits for no one. Now back to my book to study these European hares, the big sugar maple just broke the fence and the air is full of hare...lol

Newt
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by Newt »

adirondackjoe wrote:i've been reading these posts for a week and i STILL have no idea what's going on. still its better than watching re-runs of i love lucy.
It does entertain while we are shut in by "Climate Change".

sammiller03
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by sammiller03 »

Newt wrote:
adirondackjoe wrote:i've been reading these posts for a week and i STILL have no idea what's going on. still its better than watching re-runs of i love lucy.
It does entertain while we are shut in by "Climate Change".
i think this post will only get better if someone chimes in about dog food or reggie reproducing.
Millers Old Line Kennel
Grantsville, Md.

likeemfast
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by likeemfast »

sammiller03 wrote:
Newt wrote:
adirondackjoe wrote:i've been reading these posts for a week and i STILL have no idea what's going on. still its better than watching re-runs of i love lucy.
It does entertain while we are shut in by "Climate Change".
i think this post will only get better if someone chimes in about dog food or reggie reproducing.
Sam

I would agree but as we all now know there is no difference in dog food, its all the same, some dogs just react differently to the pretty bag it comes in i guess and Reggie lost his title to a hound that's dead. I do really like my Reggie X Percy female tho. :thumbsup: She's a gundog, and a darn good one.
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Chris Hornick
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by Chris Hornick »

Since my email was quoted at the beginning of this thread, I guess I should chime in.

For those that don’t know me, I have followed these little hounds through the woods for 38+ years now. Have had at least 1 patch bred hound here since the winter of 1975/76, and since 1993 all my hounds came from or descended directly from the Patch kennel in New York of Mike Capozzi. (Mike became like a second father to me.) I am very passionate, like most of us, about the hounds. I have spoke with many great beaglers of the past such as the late Butch Keene and Tom Dornin (I still have those letters written in green ink) as well as several notable beaglers of today. I have picked the brains of many well known breeders and field trial judges and even some AKC conformation judges. I have an AKC judge’s # and a PBGA show judge certificate. I have seen many hounds run, some outstanding, some terrible and many in between. Beginning in 2010, I became partners in the Patch AKC registered kennel with Mike until his passing in 2014. Before his passing, Mike’s hounds all came here, as well as all the records of the kennel from Willet’s time. After Mike’s death, it has been me carrying on.

First off, that email was sent to the email address Charles provided to me. I don’t give MY wife’s email out for beagle purposes.

Secondly, the email was sent in response to several pm’s that were sent to me by Charles, not the thread on another forum as was mentioned. I sent an email so that I could attach some photos for Charles to view and respond to (which he didn’t). Instead of answering the questions, he stomped his feet like a petulant little school girl and posted my email to a public forum, assuming people would pile on me for speaking the truth. Charles says about his banishment from the Hunted Hare that Norwester should have posted the entire thread, not just pick and choose but that is exactly what he did posting my email without background. By posting my email to a public forum, it is unquestionably an attempt to drag me down. (It is a small man that tries to make himself greater by trying to tear others down.) It has been interesting how this thread has gone.

The pm conversation started as a civil discussion, Charles mentioned some faults in hounds (cherry eye, crooked legs, epilepsy etc) that worried him and made him afraid to breed outside of his circle. I agreed and added a few more faults that concern me. Well… Charles fired back a pm blasting hounds in an article 25 years ago that he believed had every fault that I mentioned. I was taught to not start fights but end them, hence the email.

The response from Charles revealed a lot about him. For the past 20 years, Charles has spoken about the greatest trip of his life going to New York and Beaver Meadows. Mike was gracious enough to take Charles to Beaver Meadows (Charles’ Holy Land) and show many things to Charles pertaining to Willet and the early Patch hounds. Now that Mike has passed, Charles could not wait to disparage him. I believe it is very disrespectful to wait to downgrade someone’s hounds until after they are gone and especially someone who went out of his way to be kind to you. Mike is no longer alive to defend himself, so I defended him with facts (as well as my opinions). What do you think Mike’s reaction was after Charles went to North River, snooped around, fished for information but did not buy a pup from him and then Mike saw Charles’ multitude of internet posts calling himself “SR Patch”? As recently as a few days ago, Charles is mentioning Mike’s widow in a post, still trying to align himself with them even after his criticism. Mike and his wife were onto Charles many years ago. Charles is a polar opposite of Mike and his family.

Charles says he has no animosity towards me and the very next sentence says “…have you read what Chris has said about others?” He has shown nothing but animosity toward me since the time he learned that I had the AKC registered kennel. I have been called many things and Charles has implied that I conned my way into the kennel. Nothing could be further from the truth. From Charles’ high horse, he honestly believes that he is superior to everyone and only he knows how to breed quality hounds (and only he can deliver wisdom in the form of riddles and rhymes, original or plagiarized.) His Psalm quotation did not surprise me either as Charles believes he is the savior of the beagle breed. Charles has downgraded many hounds and breeders but once his own hounds were crossed into that line suddenly the hounds were superior. (Yes Charles, I save emails as well, and I have your email about Pearl, but once your Sugar Ridge was bred into Pearl she was then ok. Same with Plowboy, all the sudden after Bossman, Plowboy was doing “great” things, in my opinion, the worst kind of kennel blindness.)

As far as the Patch name, from where did Charles acquire his information that Mike was OK with others using it? I know the story here and have the letters to and from AKC to prove that Mike did NOT find it ok for some to use the name. Charles shouldn’t state his own opinions as facts. Do you honestly think that Willet, or Mike (or myself) would be making the crosses that some guys are making and calling them patch? I know for a fact that is not the case. Before Mike died, (he knew it would be the last time we spoke) he told me to take care of the hounds for him & Willet and to protect the Patch name.

All I will say about Willet’s & Mike’s breeding choices is to look at the pedigrees. Where in Willet’s writings did he say not to outcross? He did state that he had the best success when he stuck closest to his original lines but study the pedigrees and you will see what he meant. For them, it was all about the hounds, not the way a pedigree looked or how many times someone could put their name in a hound’s pedigree or if it only said patch up and down. Look in Wilderness Patchwork, you will see Sister Girl, Jeff Cole and others. How about Rattler Patch or Willa? Do you know the pedigree on those hounds Charles? Like Bill (flint river) said, (validating many of the points I was making):
guys have line bread and inbread the hounds to death to keep the look
Although Bill (flint river) talks in circles,
the patch name was bull crap
and if i would have kept TAZ he would have ben called shafs flint river patch TAZ.
I would like to know if Bill has ever seen a hound from the Patch Kennel or just the knock-offs? He also states that the patch of today are not what they were in the 80s. Again, I believe he is speaking of the knock-offs. That is because they (the patch wackos) have gotten further and further away from the original hounds, literally (more generations/selections away from Willet) AND in both type and field work. Mike and the original Patch kennel have stayed true to the vision and standards of Willet.

Bill (flint river) also says everyone else is too sensitive, but I believe Charles is too thin-skinned. He can try to dish it out but can’t take it. “…It shook me to the bone” and he “was hurt and upset” that someone finally said what obviously many had been thinking.

So enlighten us Charles, what patch hounds are you breeding into your “patchwork” hounds? Tell us about the pictures I included in the email, what are your opinions on that quality?

I personally could not care less what the wise ole sage Charles Aldridge says or thinks about me. I’ve got a kennel full of beautiful, quality hounds that also don’t care what riddles or slander he utters. Some people just have diarrhea of the mouth.

http://www.thepatchkennel.com

Chris Hornick
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by Chris Hornick »

I had a dream as well. Mine might have been brought on by the fried beans I ate the night before:

There was a jester in medieval England that wore pointy green shoes and a pointy green hat. This jester went about giving his opinion on everything under the sun from politics, to the virtues of liberalism, to hound qualities. This jester believed that he had the answer to everything and was the only intelligent voice and that all should heed his advice. Many ignored the jester as just a babbling fool. Some told the jester about his foolish ways and they then became the target of the jester. Even after the jester heard the truth from other sources, when most would be embarrassed, the jester proclaimed his ignorance even louder and more often.

One day the northwind blew and the jester was positive it was speaking directly to him. He proclaimed that he was the chosen one. But the jester was not the one chosen by the northwind. A gentleman in a red coat was the one chosen by the northwind and proceeded to do the proper things proving his stature as the intelligent one.

The jester became even more irritating and the story goes on.

likeemfast
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Re: Lesson Learned...

Post by likeemfast »

If i were to listen to a E.F. Hutton that are mentioned time and again on here, i know where my money would be.
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