Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)

Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett

Chevy10
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by Chevy10 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:32 am

rock river wrote:If being a arrogant a$$ means I tell a well known beagler that their dog is swinging and cutting and babbling or over running or what ever it is then yes I'm being a arrogant a$$!!! Like I said before I have never judged a leash and never will!!!!

Right On! I like your way of Judging.
:check:

pcable
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:36 am
Location: Pike County, kentucky

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by pcable » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:46 am

This kind of arguing and BS is what keeps people from coming to trials. I know it has kept me away for years! I don't like a bunch of drama associated with the sport that I do to relax and enjoy my dogs and don't think anyone else does either. I was at the trial on Sunday and was treated very well and will be back again. If politics and drama start ruining my experience I'll quit going. If you want to see more support and entries at the trials stop the B.S. and treat everyone fairly and things will pick up!
IF A DOG WON'T HUNT, IT CAN'T JUMP RABBITS!!!
Owner Co-Owner
Cables Ragin' Recoil
Cables Rockin Ruby
Cables Tuff Baba Clyde
Martin's Holly Lynn
Wireman's Little Ann

Ron Conroe
Posts: 1342
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by Ron Conroe » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:02 am

pcable wrote:This kind of arguing and BS is what keeps people from coming to trials. I know it has kept me away for years! I don't like a bunch of drama associated with the sport that I do to relax and enjoy my dogs and don't think anyone else does either. I was at the trial on Sunday and was treated very well and will be back again. If politics and drama start ruining my experience I'll quit going. If you want to see more support and entries at the trials stop the B.S. and treat everyone fairly and things will pick up!
Your living in a dream world.

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.
Posts: 3877
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Great State Of Kentucky

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:28 pm

As Ron States, everyone is a critical judge. Unless they win. Judging is as hard as any thing i ever done. I think numbers are down because times are pretty hard all over. I also think too many show up with little to no dog power, wont hunt wont handle and in half azz shape. Then get mad when dog gets picked up, most dogs get up for swinging take in mind that seems too occur when they are not in trial shape. Midwest promotes a great format. Lost alot more than won. Too me if dogs are not conditioned to stay down with a pack of screamers that can drive a rabbit too the death, then your coming up! Standing at the truck calling your dogs sounds great, it has little to no bearing on the judge giving it his all too keep up with them. Thanks for and too the boys trying to figure it out. Now granted i aint no longer a factor but i still love too dream. Run em till they melt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.

KanesIrish
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:54 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by KanesIrish » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:48 pm

I want to get back to calling field trial secretaries to get your name out to judge...

If you've judged 4 or 5 licensed trials and now they aren't calling you...there's a reason for that. It's not because you're brutally honest, it's not because you picked up the wrong guys dogs. Judges are getting judged all the time. Guys don't get to judges 100's of trials because they're nice guys, it's because they work hard, honest and carry themselves as professionals.

rock river
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:13 am
Location: Camden Ohio

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by rock river » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:56 pm

Nice Copy and paste. Figured id share this to those that have not seen it.

Events
Field Trials
Beagle Field Trials
Beagle Field Trials History

Beagle Field Trials: History of the Sport



Beagle field trials, a sport found only in the United States and Canada, started with this announcement in the Sunday Boston Herald on October 26, 1890: "A group of Beagle Owners would hold a Beagle field trial in Hyannis, Massachusetts, in a fortnight." This Group called themselves the National Beagle Club of America, and the advertised trial was held on November 4, 1890, with eighteen entries-fifteen dogs and three bitches.

Shortly thereafter, this group applied for membership in The American Kennel Club, which was then just six years old. They were denied because a group of show enthusiasts, known initially as the American English Beagle Club, already held membership.

The men in the National Beagle Club refused to give up. Finally, in May 1891, the American Beagle Club (formerly the American English Beagle Club) merged with the National Beagle Club. The new group called itself The National Beagle Club and it became the parent club for the breed. At that time, the AKC was completely show oriented, and an interesting sidelight on the club's admission to AKC membership was the AKC's strong objections to the parent club's involvement in both field trials and shows. H. F. Schellhass, then president and AKC delegate of the National, told the AKC:"This club was formed for improvement in the field and on the bench of the Beagle hound in America, and will enter the AKC with its constitution unchanged, if it enters at all. "The AKC dutifully backed off.

Three Formal Packs were entered at the National Beagle Club's meet in 1896. The traditional Forman Packs that were either privately opened or supported by subscription

from local Beagle devotees. The packs were foot handled, with the Huntsman and his (or her) assistants, called Whippers-in, all resplendent in green jackets, white pants, knickerbockers or skirts, and black velvet caps. Packs were identified by the uniquely colored piping on the Huntsman's jacket. As late a 1983 twenty-eight such packs were registered with that club. They were hunted as three-couple (6), four-couple (8), and eight --couple (16) packs. At a Formal Pack field trial, each pack was judged as a unit or team, and its performance was measured against that of other packs entered in the trial.

Participation in the sport of Formal Pack Beagling has always been limited to people with means. With the popularity of the Beagle, a new concept emerged in the early 1900s. Americans became interested in the development of an individual hound that could trail the hare or rabbit effectively and efficiently without the assistance of variously endowed pack mates. Beagles, selectively bred with this concept in mind, were referred to by the pack men as "singles." To this day, it is not unusual to hear this term on the running grounds of the National Beagle Club when reference is made to Beagle run in Braces.

In a sense the merits of a Formal Pack were to be discovered by testing, the traditional method of evaluating the abilities of working dogs, sporting dogs, and hounds. But rather

than putting them to tests, most Americans always preferred to put dogs in competition on a head-to-head basis. In fact, the AKC Beagle Field Trial Rules and Standard Procedures state it this way in the foreword: "The holding of field trials at which pure-bred dogs may be run in competition.... Has been found to be the best method by which the progress which has been made in breeding a be shown."

Early beaglers became aware that industrialization and development for business and housing were reducing the availability of hunting and training grounds. The purchase of land by Beagle clubs was encouraged and even mandated by the AKC. In contrast to field trials for breeds in which domestically raised game can be released for the trial, the Beagle field trial is limited to the pursuit of a quarry that must be acclimated to the terrain. Beaglers became ardent conservationists. Natural food and cover programs on the Beagle Club grounds became necessary to maintain a natural supply of rabbits for training and trialing. In many instances, clubs reclaimed marginal land; soil fertility was measured and improved; and the term "rabbit farming" became the byword at any progressive Beagle Club. Today more than 529 Beagle Clubs either own or lease land in excess of 150 acres each.

The building boom that followed World War II introduced hazards to Beagles intent on the chase. Too often the rabbit could take them across a new road or superhighway. Most clubs were forced to fence their land for the safety of the hounds. This, of course, also enclosed the rabbits, which then developed running traits quite unlike their "wild" cousins outside the enclosures.

In order to get hounds that could effectively trail the "enclosure" rabbit, houndsmen bred for a slower, more precise working dog. Gradually, the old, one-on-one competition was replaced by an appreciation of the "style" in which the field-trial Beagle tracked a rabbit. This was significant in light of the fact that nearly 90 percent of four hundred clubs holding AKC licensed trials in the '80s were running Brace events. At these trials the hounds whose "style" most impressed the judges were given the ribbons. Through selective breeding, the Beagles used at field trials and run in Braces became slow and meticulous tracking specialists.

However, the rabbit hunter, still the most numerous of all who take wild game in the United States, found that the slow "stylish" field-trial Beagle was totally undesirable as a hunting dog. By the early 1970s, the need developed for a real gundog, or hunting Beagle. This movement gathered momentum, and its breeding programs reflected the trend to hark back early days.

Meanwhile the situation was somewhat different for those northern clubs that ran their Hounds in Large Packs on hares. They continued to pride themselves justifiably on producing hunting Beagles and believed that their trials showed the Beagle to such an advantage.

The promoters of the "gundog" or "hunting Beagle," however, did not believe that the Large Pack was the most acceptable method to pursue the cottontail rabbit. Instead, they chose to use a running standard that was already in the AKC Rules. This was the Small Pack in which hounds are run on rabbits in packs of from three to seven hounds, with the judges selecting the outstanding performers to be run in a second series and then finally in a Winners Pack. To prove beyond a doubt that they were competing with "hunting Beagles, " the AKC in the late 1970s permitted the additional testing of their hounds for gun-shyness and searching ability in what became known as the Small Pack Option, the fifth type of competition for Beagles. By the end of 2001, 46% percent of all Beagle clubs were conducting licensed and sanctioned trials in this manner.

The beaglers desire to recognize Brace beagles that were actual hunting dogs vs. those beagles that had been breed to participate only in Brace trials led to the creation of another type of beagle field trial, the Gun Dog Brace. These dogs are cast to search and tested for gun dog brace.

Currently AKC offers four methods of beagle field trials:

Brace on Wild Rabbit or Hare (Gun Dog Brace)

Small Pack Option on Wild Rabbit or Hare

Large Pack on Wild Rabbit or Hare.

It is interesting to note that the members of the Beagle Advisory Committee have been working to develop a new trial method, that of the Two-coupled Pack. As with many other things, history is repeating itself in the Beagle world.

With the sport Beagle field trials so diversified, and with traditions dating back almost one hundred years, how could the AKC cope with its administration of the five distinctive competitive standards for Beagle trials, recognizing that pure-bred Beagles are the objects of competition in all four standards? It took a unique mechanism.

In order to understand this administrative evolution, the reader must know that an AKC Member parent club for any breed, such as the venerable National Beagle Club of America, has not only the responsibility to approve the dates of the events held by local clubs for its breed but also to propose the standards by which its breed is judged in conformation and performance.

In 1936 the National Beagle Club voted to abrogate part of its responsibilities as a parent club and ceased granting consent for field-trial dates. Instead they recommended that the AKC appoint a ten-member Advisory Committee from among the delegates of the Beagle AKC member clubs whose purpose would be to advise the AKC's Board of Directors on the matter of granting licenses for Beagle field trials. A member of the AKC's executive staff was to chair this Advisory Committee.

And so for 70 years a Beagle Advisory Committee (BAC) has been responsible for advising the AKC's Board of Directors on meeting the challenge of the administration of the sport of Beagle field trials. Evolution has played its part, and there have bben some significant changes in the BAC's structure. For instance, the committee consists of thirteen members, twelve of whom each represent some forty Beagle clubs from across the nation. The thirteenth committee member belongs to the National Beagle Club of America. An AKC executive still chairs the meeting. The system has worked well.

First AKC Brace Trials for Beagles

November 4, 1890 *National Beagle Club (18 starters)

Hyannis, Massachusetts

November 1, 1893 Northwestern Beagle Club (10 starters)

Whitewater, Wisconsin

November 6, 1893 **New England Beagle Club (21 starters)

Oxford, Massachusetts

November 6, 1896 **Central Beagle Club (15 starters)

Waynesburg, Pennsylvania

*Current AKC member parent club

**Current AKC member club



Today the sport of Beagle field trials has something to offer any Beagle owner who can compete with his hound in any one of four different kinds of trials. One of the oldest types of trials is the Brace, in which the hounds compete by sex in pairs, or Braces, in pursuit of the cottontail rabbit. During the spring of 1999 the Beagle Advisory Committee added Gun Dog Brace where beagles are cast to search and tested for gun shyness. Hounds can also compete in Small pack or Small Pack Option. At these trials the Beagle are run in packs of 4 to 7 hounds, in the later the Beagles are tested for gun-shyness. In the northern tier of states, where the varying, or "snowshoe," hare is found, Beagles may be trialed in Large Packs, where a pack of thirty to sixty hounds or more in a single class is not uncommon.

pcable
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:36 am
Location: Pike County, kentucky

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by pcable » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:33 pm

Ron, I may be living in a dream world, but I don't have to travel two and a half hours or more to spend my money for someone's opinion of my dogs. I can stay home and run them and it don't cost me a dime! Been beagling since I could walk, may not have been to alot of trials but I know a thing or two about these little hounds. The problem with trials is that people have made it about themselves and not the dogs. If I want to have politics and drama I can just turn on the news! This crap is why I don't run ARHA Little Pack and there are plenty of clubs here at home! I am not going to get into a Pissing Match with you guys, I'm done with this thread and maybe the whole forum. All that I see on here is arguments and negative talk!
IF A DOG WON'T HUNT, IT CAN'T JUMP RABBITS!!!
Owner Co-Owner
Cables Ragin' Recoil
Cables Rockin Ruby
Cables Tuff Baba Clyde
Martin's Holly Lynn
Wireman's Little Ann

johns03272008
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: Sheridan, Indiana
Contact:

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by johns03272008 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:51 pm

KanesIrish wrote:I want to get back to calling field trial secretaries to get your name out to judge...

If you've judged 4 or 5 licensed trials and now they aren't calling you...there's a reason for that. It's not because you're brutally honest, it's not because you picked up the wrong guys dogs. Judges are getting judged all the time. Guys don't get to judges 100's of trials because they're nice guys, it's because they work hard, honest and carry themselves as professionals.

I still get calls to this day asking me to judge, not from alot of clubs but I respectfully decline because I no longer enjoy going to trials, I would rather run my hounds for fun, but then again I don't run rabbits any more. Also maybe the reason I didn't get called to more trials is because I wasn't in the inner circle taking certain guys dogs back to winners pack or the bench ever think of that??? :bash: :bash:
John Schelling
BORN AGAIN KENNELS



LET THE DOGS DO THE TALKING
www.bornagainkennels.weebly.com

Chimney Rock Kennel
Posts: 1878
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Pulaski County KY

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by Chimney Rock Kennel » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:20 pm

I like the Midwest trials as good as any trials going on right now. Why are the numbers down? I don't know but I think AKC could do a better job in general in advertising to reach out to new guy's to try there formats. I think ARHA does a lot better job promoting there hunts and getting youth involved early a perfect example is the youth scholarship program as well as the what could possibly be a new youth division. I'm not saying Midwest follow in there footsteps but they could do some different things to get new guy's interested. Just MY OPINION.
Home of

NrFC LPGRCH Chimney Rock's Bad Moon Rising
FCGD LPRCH Chimney Rock's KY Lucky
NrFC LPGRCH Chimney Rock's Shooting Star

WELLS WOODS
Posts: 1601
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:54 pm
Location: Annville, Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by WELLS WOODS » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:31 pm

It is human nature to get mad or disappointed when you lose. I know the judge's side of the trials & I still get upset when I run dogs & get picked up. If the judge is being honest & gives the hounds a good look, that's all you can ask for. This AKC format of two neutral judges is the best way I can think of to have an honest outcome. Can you imagine if we let the handlers score their own hounds, what a mess we would have ? I don't think there is an "inner circle" in the Mid-West. If you have the dog power, you will get what you deserve if you keep running it in trials & as a judge, if you can keep up with the hounds & keep putting good second series & winner's packs together, you will get used by clubs.
Wells Woods Kennel
Greg Wells

R.I.P.
FC Brent's Prime Time
FC Wells' Silver Spring
FCGD Wells Woods Valentine

Strange Daze Axle
Talkabout Cleo

WEIR CREEK BEAGLER
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by WEIR CREEK BEAGLER » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:50 pm

Chimney Rock Kennel wrote:I like the Midwest trials as good as any trials going on right now. Why are the numbers down? I don't know but I think AKC could do a better job in general in advertising to reach out to new guy's to try there formats. I think ARHA does a lot better job promoting there hunts and getting youth involved early a perfect example is the youth scholarship program as well as the what could possibly be a new youth division. I'm not saying Midwest follow in there footsteps but they could do some different things to get new guy's interested. Just MY OPINION.
mid west clubs should follow the ugbf clubs and advertise in the better beagling book im not sure if they do or not cant remember I get a book every month that tells all the akc ugbf spo and brace trials and results they also have the scholarship program your talking about and youth hunts also just sayin the mid west is way behind
and in every hunt akc arha what ever it is they are sore losers or people who cant accept a loss if your dog is as good as you think it is just keep going and see your gonna lose more than you win guaranteed

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.
Posts: 3877
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Great State Of Kentucky

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:48 pm

After reading dont think there is any reason to be upset or quitting. We all work like slaves and finding time to run dogs correctly is just another job...... A job that i enjoy twice as much just cant cash it in. Akc Midwest fed is still in my eyes the big brother the one advantage is friends ya may not see at times other than trials. God knows the hrs guys spend preparing for them and too get picked up is very dishearting. Good example i thought i was killing a pack a few years back after they had ran for about a hour..... Got picked up 6th which within itself is a kick in the balls. Oh well i pouted off and went home , all the way home i ran that cast in my mind over and over.Well i let it cool down and a week or so later called the judge, once he explained how it went down i realized i was wrong. My hound was cutting the pack. He was tired ...... This particular dog which i dont mind calling was Mapel Valley Remember Jimbo. I wont name the judge as there is no reason, however conditioning on my part lacked what the pack demanded that day. A well bred hound with top conditioning that can handle 9 strange big males and stay level headed with brains will win or place 90% of the time. Just my thoughts...... Sounds easy too come up with huh? Try it. Once again i think maybe things might or should be questioned at times by a handler however 95% of the time its straight up the way it outta be. When i was trialing judges seemed to be very critical of alot.And too finish was quite the honor i honestly think it still is......Run em Till they melt
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.

kwolf
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by kwolf » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:10 am

Wow a lot more responce than I thouhgt I would get !! First of all I have never been classified as a whiner when I have had a dog picked up at a trial, most of the time I seen it coming and was not surprised. Have I ever been screwed at a trial , the answer there is yes, did I throw a pissing fit , NO. I have put on my running shoes and judged but that has been many years ago, and with that being said I respect what it takes to judge a class of hounds right. First of all you need to be honest and not be afraid to call it like you see it , after all you are judging dogs for that day , not what they done last week or for whom the owners are. It is your job to stay on the pack and see as much of the chase as you can so you need to be in as good of shape as possible. The quality of dogs today verses the hounds of the 80's has been much improved and I will credit that to the trials and good judging. I don't trial as much as years ago but I still attend a couple each year, guys this can be still be a fun sport if we would all just set aside our own personal feelings and look at the big picture. We all should want the best dog to win every trial , advance the best , permote the best, and always place the best for that given day. Maybe some these young guys could job shadow some of the good judges . Handlers let the judges do their job , only give imformation if you are asked by a judge, do not try to influence the outcome by negative remarks of someone elses dog, the cream should always rise to the top. Thanks for all the input Ron Preston

WELLS WOODS
Posts: 1601
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:54 pm
Location: Annville, Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by WELLS WOODS » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:34 am

Well said..
Wells Woods Kennel
Greg Wells

R.I.P.
FC Brent's Prime Time
FC Wells' Silver Spring
FCGD Wells Woods Valentine

Strange Daze Axle
Talkabout Cleo

tcshy
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:08 pm

Re: Jessamine Kentucky trial entries ?

Post by tcshy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:41 pm

Just my two cents but if you put on a trial as a judge or the chair person etc. you shouldn't enter your dog in the trial because even if you do have the best dog in the cast it just doesn't look good when you win, especially placing several dogs in the trail just my opinion. Also, clicks yes there are some and if you continue to click and pull for one another people will not travel long distances to attend your trail to just get screwed and they will eventually figure it out.

Post Reply