New judges in Mid-West

[Ohiohntr]

So I guess I will ask....if you had 2-3 dogs with all the score...How do you pick the "charity dog" to fill the 9th spot in the winners pack?

Apparently you thought that should be your dog so how was I supposed to choose between him or the other ones with no score in my book?

And yes, I remember the check you pointed out to me over and over by the creek....the rabbit never ran down that side of the creek.

Keep in mind, you opened this door

[WELLS WOODS]

That's not the way I saw it at all. We had 7 dogs all working together with close check work. I can remember 4 different dogs, not counting mine that got checks & drives. My dog was running about 4th in the pack I thought, but he was scoring. I thought the Kane dog looked the best. One other hound worked a double right in front of me as I saw the rabbit & the hound did an absolutely amazing turn & he did not make the winners pack & you are saying in an hour run, that only two dogs scored? Well, thanks for the charity of bringing a third one back. You can praise that crappy 2nd pack all you want, but everyone saw it & they were terrible & to bring 5 of them back. Give me a break. That's the only time I've ever seen judges do this, that's why I've never forgotten that.
And another thing about a large winners pack, if you could find the best 9 "line runners" out of a class, maybe they could keep a track going instead of all the cluster ""'s you put together. I wish you the best in life; you are right about one thing, family & kids are more important that beagling. You don't seem to be very interested in beagling or show much respect for the Mid-West anyway.

[Ohiohntr]

And yet you still wonder why you can't get new judges.....over and out

[WELLS WOODS]

The Mid-West will be just fine. Lot of young beaglers out there excited about the sport. We need to keep a positive outlook & sometimes remind ourselves that a field trial can only succeed with good honest judges that know good houndwork & go by the AKC rulebook. Whether judges bring back 7 to 9 hounds to the winners pack, as long as that in their mind , they are the best of the day's class is all that matters. Look at all the great FC's our Mid-West judges have recognized through the years. I think we can keep it rolling, but now & then there's nothing wrong with calling out something that isn't beneficial to our trials. Right now, I think it is time to introduce a handful of willing and able young judges to get their feet wet.
So far Chad Blair, Shawn White & Mike Mc Guffey would like for clubs to give them a chance at a future trial. Their contact info should be on the judge's list on the Mid-West website.

[chris1971]

Judged at Wurtland in Febuary. This was my first trial that I had a chance to judge and loved it. I judged with Jimmy Roark on little females and I felt that we put together a nice winners pack. I am like Chad Blair in the fact that I have boys and both are in sports heavy but my oldest is going to college next year so this will free up some time for more trials. I am not sure I would meet your physical criteria Greg. As long as horses are allowed I will bring my own to judge off of. Yes I can dump the horse some to get in the thick stuff if need be but I am by no means able to run after dogs all day at my age.

[J.C. Blair]

Judged at Wurtland in Febuary. This was my first trial that I had a chance to judge and loved it. I judged with Jimmy Roark on little females and I felt that we put together a nice winners pack. I am like Chad Blair in the fact that I have boys and both are in sports heavy but my oldest is going to college next year so this will free up some time for more trials. I am not sure I would meet your physical criteria Greg. As long as horses are allowed I will bring my own to judge off of. Yes I can dump the horse some to get in the thick stuff if need be but I am by no means able to run after dogs all day at my age.

Haha you and I have a lot of similarities then lol....that's scary

[WELLS WOODS]

Chad, your name is not on the Mid-West's judging list. Chad's # is (859)-771-5322. Shawn White's number is (812)-987-2575. Mike Mc Guffey's isn't on the list either. His number is (606)-282-8934. He's been around the Mid-West longer than most of us & knows a dog. Jason Shag is a good judge not used much for some reason. Kim Newman (513)-850-1053, put together one of the best winners packs at Southern West Virginia one year & hasn't judged since. Jon Gibeaut will get in there and give the dogs a good look. JJ Haller has a good rep. from what I've heard. Brian Garmatter & Josh Patterson should be used more. Rob Fuller , Dan Johnson & Nick Birmingham from Michigan are three that can judge on foot. Dan Spalding is a good judge in my opinion too. I'll try to judge a few if I have to if I can take the new advanced seminar sometime. I'm in pretty good shape since I've been running dogs a lot here lately in these hills. Entries are smaller now, so lets use that to our advantage & give our entries more time on the ground so our judges can get a better look & make more sound decisions. These little grudges between clubs is ridiculous. Life is short, enjoy these trials & fellowship & let's keep promoting the best dogs in the country.
Also, a guy named Josh (260) 687-9447 pm'd me & said he is eager to get involved in the Midwest & judge if needed by any clubs for derby's or anything to prove himself.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Personally good times i had were spent drinking beer at the truck and getting autographs from the legends! Judges were trusted and ruff dogs came up at some point in the day most of the time. We all like too win but for some it never comes and for some they seem to place or finish a dog at every corner. My point is this. We all like hard hitting fast line control hounds however i have seen all of them look like idiots at times yes including mine. Look at whos winning and notice what they are doing and how they are breeding and training. Some cant stand the fact there dog sucks and its always the judges fault somehow. Thats the same guys who is probaly bashing the format, just saying. Kelly and Wells are gone its the Blair, Marple era now. I been buds with chad for years and believe this or not, he wont cheat. Pretty stand up houndsmen may not be able to run over a few minutes but wont cheat ya, Marple is as good as anyone or better out there also he has nothing to gain by cheating. Thats the guys i wanna run under that simple look at dogs forget the owner. Anyway good luck to all and run em till they melt.

[WELLS WOODS]

I agree Jimmy, all I ask for is judges to be honest & do everything humanly possible to see the action of the dogs running the rabbit. It is a tough job, but someone has to do it to keep the Mid-West FC as the number one accomplishment for most beaglers. Would you have been as proud of Junie that day he finished, if Scott & I had just half azzed around & couldn't have cared less if we saw much of the running? I doubt it.

[WELLS WOODS]

Brad Johnson was another judge that would stay on them & come out bloody, ripped clothes, etc. & his winners packs were hard on a rabbit!

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Yea your right greg, when kelly was driving around the world trying to finish as you and i were also it was all bizzness. The guys that win look at it from a different set of eyes. Chad Blair is raising twins he just dont simply have time to run as he used too.He does however contribute thru judging i think its a nice gesture. Ask don hogg how many hours a week he runs probaly shock you. Or ask bush how much money he has spent running the roads, the list goes on and on. I know what i like in a hound and i know how to get the most out of it. It takes countless money and even more time too get there. I will say some of the best times of my life has been spent in the field with a bunch of guys just hanging out and talking hounds. I been out for a minute and miss dogs greatly but Tim Short auto group demands around 80 hrs a week and he supports my family, which by the way trumps everything. I will be back someday.

[WELLS WOODS]

Yeah, my goal is to be back someday too & I want the judging to be as top notch when you & I get back in as good as it was 10 years ago. We've got to get these judges in the weeds & thickets where the dogs & rabbits are. I like to get to run my dog a while when I go to a trial even if I don't get out of first series. I want to say my dog ran a lot & was seen a lot by the judges. Most do a good job, but some need a kick in the but every now and then if they lighten up & we always need to be auditioning new ones every so often. Dallas Russell & Shawn White ran the guts out of every pack at Jessamine Co. We only had 16, but didn't finish until 4:30. The 9 dog winners pack ran 4 hours. They came up the hill on the first rabbit (we had the line) single file one time stroking it for 200 yards. Don't tell me a 9 dog winners pack is always a mess. I've seen it too much & know better from experience. That's how it's done in my opinion. I saw guys shaking the judges hands that didn't even make it back for at least giving them a good, long honest look. If you need one ran Jimmy, send it to me & I'll get it ready. I run every day now.

[beaglestotrack]

Derek chapko performance judging number 91540
I would simply judge by the rules!!
Not the style I like or what my buddy likes simply the rules the standard at witch akc set.
there are too many guys out there that are falling away from the standard and the rule book of AKC and just judging what they like.

[KanesIrish]

You need to let the day decide on how many dogs will be called back for further consideration on that day!

The day I say before first series even started, "I'm calling back 9", I'm doing a disservice to everybody that entered a dog.

Winner's Pack is called winners pack for a reason, dogs that have a chance to win the trial should be in there, not dogs that have been soundly defeated in first or subsequent series.

I've judged about 100 or so SPO trials, not as long as you Greg, only about 16 years, but I'll be hard pressed to bring back a "bubble" dog to winners pack to let it sneak through after it probably got it's ass beat in first or second series. I've had plenty of 5 dog winners pack and plenty of 9 dog winners pack, none of them did I know who was winning the trial before that pack started.

As far as a brace, I told Jimmy Roark my idea on going to a brace a few weeks ago: The only time I want to see a brace is when I don't know who the winner is, when it's close in my book, and the other judges book. Twice in my life I went to a brace when myself and the other judge didn't agree, it didn't work out well, it becomes a my dog and his dog situation, it's no longer about the best dog, it becomes a pissing match. When that happens it's much easier to leave a pack on the ground to determine the winner.

One last thing, after first series if I have say 12-15 dogs left on the ground, I'm either coming back with all of them or a winners pack.

Did I pass the test? Am I allowed to judge in the Midwest again? Lol...good running to you guys!

[WELLS WOODS]

You passed the test with flying colors Kanes Irish ! I would never bring 9 back just to be bringing 9 back or set any number in my head before the trial. I rarely in the Mid-West am unable to find 9 quality hounds I think could possibly win or place. Some of these guys that hate a 9 dog winners pack so much, will run two packs full of great hounds & it comes down to luck a lot of times these dogs are so even; which hound gets lucky & breaks the way the rabbit went, when the other hound would have looked just as good or better had the rabbit turned the way this dog decided to work. Why not just let them all run together & settle it in the winners pack where you won't be pressed for time to make a decision & they can place themselves. After watching my best hounds all day & know they are sound rabbit hounds that are focused on the line & are not faulty racing junk, I have no worries about putting them down with a 9 dog pack & causing chaos. I would never bring a faulty or below average hound to the winners pack just to fill it up. And as far as a brace goes, I think I've only did it twice, because usually after all the running you will have a clear winner by the time you get down to three or five. I braced FC JR's Top Gun Tyke with another nice hound once, but Tyke beat him one on one rather convincingly.