Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

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Big River Beagles S
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Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Big River Beagles S »

Not wanting to bash or start a p***ing match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT FIGURE IT WILL
I just want some honest opinions, I don't trial much but I go to a few to see what is out there to better my kennel. Most the time I don't even run a hound. I have been to Large Pack and Midwest also some SPO trials in PA. I will say it seemed the Spo trials in PA I was at did an excellent job in measuring hounds and getting dogs in correct classes. I have been to UKC and ARHA and have seen oversized hounds there also. But the don't split classes.
I just have noticed a trend lately that the measuring has gotten very laxs in both classes. I have noticed a lot of hounds in the magazines on the bench seem to be really pushing the size limits of 13 and 15. I have personally heard the comment being made awe its just a 1/4" or 1/2" but why have the rule. I understand a small amount of size might not beat you but an 1 1/2" may and what I mean is I bring my 12" dog to run in a 13" class and have to run against a 13 1/2" or 14" dog that's a lot after 3 hrs of grinding or a 13 1/2" or 14" in the big class and have to run against 16"s I don't see the fairness in this.
I am guessing if AKC is promoting a 13" class and a 15" class there is a reason so shouldn't we stick to the guidelines. I understand when measuring some hounds won't stand and cower and everything else but always seem the dogs on the bench at the end mostly stand up pretty nice and pretty easy to pick out the BIG ones. I am saying I think we can get a lot closer on the actual size of hound than we are and I think as handlers we need to be more honest about these so called *Borderline Hounds* I understand giving a hound a little or benefit of the doubt but it is getting out of hand.
So my opinion if we are not going to do a good job of splitting the classes by size why not just run one class.
Scott Umthun

CHAD CAMPBELL
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by CHAD CAMPBELL »

Scott at what trial did you see this happening?
CLEAR CREEK BEAGLES

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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by NCSportsman »

You need to bring your grievance to the Field Trial Secretary of the club. If you are not satisfied, then contact AKC.

There is no gray area when it comes to measuring.

Just because the rules for measuring were broken at one club does not mean this happens at every club.

Big River Beagles S
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Big River Beagles S »

I said I was not going to BASH but it has been at way more than one club in the last probably 3 yrs, If you look in the better beagling magazine it is pretty easy to see especially iin the 13"s
Last edited by Big River Beagles S on Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Remmy
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Remmy »

All else aside, I believe that folks like the fact that there are 4 times as many winners or ribbons than if there was a single class.

The problem with measuring is that 4 different judges using the same measuring stand can come up with 4 different measurements. It's not like measuring a 2 by 4.
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fulcount
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by fulcount »

Scott
I agree with you ,seems people dont know how small a real 13 in hound is anymore
More 131/2 and 14 in hounds in the 13 in classes than legit 13v inchers
I remember when if we had a 14 in hound it was good for a 15 in class hound
Now we need a 151/2 in or 16 in to compete
I dont believe there is anyone out there especially up here in LPH that keeps a bloodline
that is a real 13 in bloodline any More
Measuring has really gotten out of hand today it seems that in either class
if you bring it you can runit

John O

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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by CHAD CAMPBELL »

I was just asking because the AKC trial i was at last weekend things were just the opposite of what you were claiming to have seen. Hounds were measured tight and there was nothing going over 15in. Just stating what I have seen.

Nothing personal towards you Scott but you are painting with a pretty broad brush in saying what you have. If you are going to call out a whole organization you need to at least give a few specific examples besides pics in a magizine. Pictures can be very deceptive in regards to hound size in my experience. Just my 2 cents.
CLEAR CREEK BEAGLES

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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Big River Beagles S »

Chad I feel I have been to enough trials in the last 3 yrs probably 15 to 20 and heard from a lot of guys that run a lot more than me say the same thing from all associations. I am just saying when you personally see a dog and it measures 12 3/4" inches or a little more on the bench and see the other dogs that are an inch taller or more pretty hard not to make the assumption. I have measured a few dogs and seen a lot of 15" FC that were a lot bigger than that dog that measured 14 7/8" I am not trying to Bash and organization because I think they are producing the best hounds out there as a whole, just saying I think it can be improved by measuring better.
I am not saying it is always this way just saying it is happening, So Chad you are saying you have not seen poor measuring practices go on at a trial?

beaglestotrack
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by beaglestotrack »

Scott I have noticed it up here in michigan for years

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S.R.Patch
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by S.R.Patch »

I know you can't go by pictures. I was looking at a hound's picture that I thought was pushing the 15" limit but in reality was not close.
When there is more air under the hound than body depth, the hound looks tall, especially if the hound is a little cobby built on length.
I think the conformation standard said, there should not be more air under the hound than body depth to remain in proportion and show good room for lungs and heart.

I think your right tho, the more hounds that can be eliminated the sooner this nonsense will stop and trialing will come to an end. The breed has long been established and standardized, the ability to run a rabbit and account for it has been accomplished. Like the Unions, field trials have outlasted their usefulness and now only serve to fraction the breed by size limits and style to feed a man's ego. Looking at the big picture, the breed has come together and is now fracturing and separating, all under the same rule book and guide lines. Where is the positive in this? It surely doesn't help the breed or the useful rabbitdawg's further existence. :???:

CHAD CAMPBELL
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by CHAD CAMPBELL »

Yes Scott I have seen poor measuring practiced. I have entered dogs that weren't over 14 1/2 on the best day of there life and yet somehow the judge measuring managed to get a full 15in's out of them. Very aggravating. No Kenny I'm not talking about you.
CLEAR CREEK BEAGLES

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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by NCSportsman »

The only way to fix is policing our own ranks.

If you see a dog measure out and the judges let it through, bring a complaint to the Field Trial Secretary of that club, then file a complaint with the AKC.

They will start sending a rep to the trials of that particular club to ensure no funny business is going down....

gpen08
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by gpen08 »

Its funny you brought this up as I too have seen this very same issue. Like you I don't trial much but have went to several Midwest trials and small pack trials. I entered a dog that was a legitimate 14 and a quarter inches and was stunned to see how small he looked compared to the other 15 inch dogs in his pack. There's no way they are being measured accurately. Have heard of several tricks used to get dogs to hunker down when on the measuring stand. It amuses me at how important it is for some people to get there dogs in a certain class just to better there chances of placing. The dogs are what they are. Run them in the class they truly are and let the chips fall where they may.

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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Little Indian Creek »

CHAD CAMPBELL wrote:Yes Scott I have seen poor measuring practiced. I have entered dogs that weren't over 14 1/2 on the best day of there life and yet somehow the judge measuring managed to get a full 15in's out of them. Very aggravating. No Kenny I'm not talking about you.
:lol: Havent been on this site for months and what do you know, as soon as I open it there is somebody talking about me. :P
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Re: Why have size classes in AKC anymore?

Post by Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. »

They are all a kentucky-15"
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